Discovering Food Freedom and Body Connection Through Getting To Know Your Local Farmers, Farmers Markets, and the Roots of Your Food
Welcome to the Satiated Podcast where we explore physical and emotional hunger, satiation and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host, Stephanie Mara Fox, your Somatic Nutritional Counselor. I have a very special guest with me today. A little backstory first, I was chatting with a previous guest on the podcast a few months ago about my brother in law, who is a farmer and consultant to companies with natural climate solutions. He is passionate about teaching others on soil, food and the health of our environment. After mentioning what he does, this guest said, "Wow, I'd love to hear more from him." So I reached out to Jacob and was like, you've got to come on my podcast. I know I talk a lot here about the emotional aspects of our relationship with food and why we may eat to self soothe. And a part of healing your relationship with food can also be falling back in love with the nourishing qualities of food and feeling empowered, that you get to choose what food you satiate your body with. So welcome, Jacob.
Jacob Fox 01:09
Thanks so much for having me.
Stephanie Mara 01:10
I'm super excited to have you on my podcast right now and just to dive in more about all the things that I know you're so passionate about. And I want to first start off with, because your story is so interesting, of how you even got into this passion of farming and soil. And, you know, even if you want to get into all the things you've done with worms, I'd love to hear just how you got into this work.
Jacob Fox 01:35
Yeah, absolutely. So I've always been really interested in food, like, especially as it related to like my athletic career, I played college soccer, and I was just like, a really passionate sports person for most of my life. And so I was always looking for an edge, you know, the food, you know, kind of was a no brainer, people have kind of recognized that. But I mean, really, you know, meeting you when you started dating my brother, you know, what, 10, 12, 13 years ago, probably at this point, and, you know, really started having a conversation about it, you know, because you hear so much like, this is good, and this is bad. And then you know, you try to keep that in your mind, but it's really hard as you go through the day. And so, you know, what you started to teach me was, you know, how there's like a conversation about it. And you know, it's, it's more than just like, these things are good, and these things are bad. So, you know, that really connected me to thinking about food in a broader aspect. And so kind of randomly, I got the opportunity after graduating from college in 2016, in upstate New York, which is a very agricultural region, I got the opportunity to run a vermicomposting facility. I met a gentleman who saw my passion for the environment and food. And, you know, he just heard a lot of good buzzwords, and he said, "Hey, you know, I'd love to use your enthusiasm to grow, you know, my company." And so, I did that for a few years, but what I really fell in love with was agriculture. So, you know, I was making a product to sell to farmers and so I was visiting a lot of farms. And, you know, that's really where I was just like, wow, like, this is what I want to spend the rest of my life doing, you know, both as it relates to, you know, what I physically want to spend my energy doing, but also, you know, how I can, you know, contribute to the world, you know, contribute to my own understanding of food, but I'm really big shareer I love you know, whatever I learned, I like to tell others. And so, you know, I saw this farming opportunity, as you know, an opportunity to continue my path down learning about food, but then in the way that I've set up the farm is hopefully in the future, I can teach others as well.
Stephanie Mara 03:46
Yeah, yeah, it's been such an interesting journey to even observe you go on, and I've seen your passion just grow over the years. And so, you know, why should we care about where our food is being grown? You know, why does it make a difference?
Jacob Fox 04:03
Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. There's a few factors that I like to focus on, you know, the distance that things need to travel plays a huge role in agriculture. You know, anyone who's ever had an Econ 160 class in high school or college has heard the term competitive advantage, and, you know, has heard the idea of specialization that if they're really good at growing, you know, watermelons out in California, and we're really good at growing apples in upstate New York, then that's actually awesome. And we should, you know, trade those products, you know, ship them across the country and so forth. And so, you know, that was what I learned was the agricultural system. And when you move products, such a large distance, there's a few factors that join. First of all, you know, we're talking about larger businesses, so you're not going to necessarily have like a small family farm in California, you know, shipping their goods out to New York State. Now you're going to have a big agricultural system that's going to grow, you know, all of the same crop, which means they're going to, you know, have the equipment that, you know, is really good for that one crop, they're going to have the fertilizers and chemicals that are good for that one crop. And then I mean with like leafy greens, for example, like they lose over like 70% of their nutrient density in the first like, 48 hours. So, you know, you might be getting something that looks good, but it might not have the nutrient density. And so, you know, that conversation is really big, you know, it relates a lot to the meat world, I talk a lot about that, you know, there's a lot of discussion about, you know, meat is really bad, and, you know, all these plant based alternatives are really good. And, you know, just like we just said, it's not black and white. And I love the little saying, it's not the cow, it's the how. It's not that cows are bad, it's how they are raised. And, you know, if the cows and or other animals that you're eating are raised, you know, with not good diets, and with chemicals, you know, you are what you eat, you are what you eat, eats, and so those things will eventually travel to you. And so, you know, it's really important to, you know, depending on where you live, also, there's different factors, like where I live is very agricultural. So, you know, we both have, like, dietary concerns, but we also have like land management concerns, you know, like these farmers, not only if they do the right, you know, agricultural practices can we have good food, but we can also protect our freshwater lakes. And so, you know, that's this really exciting thing is that, you know, you you go down this path of like learning how to make yourself healthier, but you actually learn that you can actually contribute to making the world healthier in your consumption of these regenerative foods, as we call them.
Stephanie Mara 06:51
Mmhmm. Yeah, it just makes me think of, you know, we go to a grocery store, and we just pick something off the shelf, and we're so removed these days from the entire process that goes into that food being in existence, and then also how what we choose to eat just affects our whole ecosystem.
Jacob Fox 07:16
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, you know, farmers, I think their biggest product that they produce is ecosystem value. So you know, soil captures water, it fosters a habitat for pollinators and for other insects and animals of the soil food web, you know, we love their aesthetic view, you know, people love going apple picking. And, you know, it's interesting, you know, in this world, because I, you know, I do run a business. So I do like to think of things from a financial perspective. But I also like to think about these things that you can't really put a price on. And, you know, there's certain things like water and air quality that we're starting to learn that we maybe should put a price on. But you know, just like, you know, the rural character, and, you know, like the, you know, connection that farmers, you know, used to have with the community and how, you know, kids who work in the school district used to help them with harvest in the summers, and there's, you know, these connections that, you know, might not have a financial value, but, you know, can help reconnect our communities, can help, you know, reconnect ourselves and feeling like a sense of accomplishment. I mean, I know, that's always been something big for me is like, when I was looking around at the big job world, you know, I saw all these companies out there, and I'm like, no, like, I want to physically do something like I don't want to be a part of some team that like, gives advice or you know, something like that. Like, I want to actually put my hands in the ground one year and see the difference the next year.
Stephanie Mara 08:43
Yeah, and I'm curious with being so hands on what you've seen make a difference in how the care of what something is grown in how that changes the nutrient density of that food. And then we can get to this but I'm going to add on of how can someone even start to identify that for themselves because again, we just go to the grocery store and you think a carrot is just a carrot. But that might not necessarily be so depending upon how far it traveled, and the you know, way that it was cared for, the soil that it was grown in. And so I think individuals are kind of like okay, this is really cool to learn this but then how do I then go and know what to pick for myself?
Jacob Fox 09:28
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we're getting luckier you know, depends on where you live obviously, like if you live in you know, California or Colorado or you know, some of these more progressive areas, you know, you can go to your supermarket and you know, they have words like regenerative, like organic, you know, the organic piece. I prefer to buy organic as much as possible. But there is this big revolution going on in the organic world where a lot of people and I similarly feel that it's been co opted by a lot of big agriculture. And so they've let some things into the organic certification that aren't necessarily good for the soil. Now, I will say that the, the really big key is that like organic isn't using a lot of those chemicals that are like, specifically really bad for like workers like farm workers. So, you know, while I might not be able to get all the good out of, you know, I'm at least able to support, you know, them not doing that. And so if you're at one of those supermarkets that had really good, you know, labeling read into that, you know, farmers markets are incredible, the direct to consumer meat sales have become really big, you know, I think we've talked a lot about the whole like, frozen thing, and you know, how the nutrient density of frozen things versus like, the fresh things, and you know, what we put on the fresh things to to get them across the country, and it's like, well, we could have frozen them. And so, you know, just trying to, you know, be a little bit more strategic in those aspects. And then, I mean, obviously, if you have a farmers market, and you can get to know your farmer, that's ideal. I mean, there are certain things like you can get to know the company that makes, you know, the products and, you know, maybe they have some signals to say that they support these farmers, and you can ideally, like check up on them. You know, there's also certain like varieties of the crop that you're like, Oh, well, this one is, you know, really heavily, genetically modified. And so it actually requires a lot more chemicals. But this one is actually like a native plant, and it was native to this region. So it really didn't require as much. And so, you know, there's certain little nuances there about, you know, different types of good products.
Stephanie Mara 11:39
Yeah, yeah, I know that a lot of individuals that I've worked with, something that they might start doing is they'll get to know the farmers that are in their environments, and they'll have conversations with them. And they'll say, okay, you know, what, are you feeding your animals? Do they get fresh air? Do they live a good life? You know, are you taking care of them? Do they feel loved? And even just, you know, what are your practices on your farm, and I think farmers markets are a great way to start to also get to know your local community. And like you said, looking up, like, if you have a favorite food thing that you often buy, look at that company, you know, get to know their practices, reach out to them, ask questions, because I think a lot of the times, you know, again, we go to a store, and we say, this is what my offerings are without kind of thinking through well, like, is the person creating this offering, whether that be packaged or not, are they caring for my body the way I would want to care for my body?
Jacob Fox 12:38
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, obviously, they're trying to sell something. We're in such a confused world right now, you know, you see words like fresh or natural, and, you know, they don't really mean anything. And you know, even the grass fed world has been a little bit co opted, like, is it grass fed? Or is it grass finished? And, you know, the loopholes that exist in these certifications will be exploited to the absolute max. And so you know, that, and what I'll say about the farmers thing is like, you know, it's funny, like, depending on where you live, you know, I think the pandemic, you know, taught us a lot like, what do we do with our days? Like, what do we do with our weekends? You know, do we go to concerts? Do we go to movies? Do we do this? Or that? Like, how about go visit your farmer, you know, spend a day outside, you know, in a hopefully a healthy ecosystem that, you know, will hopefully give you some spiritual benefit. And then, you know, the great thing about farmers, they always need help. I've personally, you know, developed good relationships with friends, and, you know, going down helping them harvest potatoes is like, sometimes a fun thing to do on a Saturday. And you know, when you don't have, you know, it's not your job, you know, you're just like, you know, helping and, you know, more times than not farmers cook a nice meal for you.
Stephanie Mara 13:57
Yeah, it actually makes me think of when I was living in Vermont, and I was working at a drop in center for at risk and homeless youth, there were some days where, yeah, we would actually take everyone and we would go volunteer on a farm. And they were super appreciative because absolutely, it may feel like, Oh, I just spent a day helping plant some seeds or whatever, but it's such a huge, big deal for that person to receive that support. I'm pretty sure they kind of gave us some free vegetables or something in return. But yeah, you're helping someone be able to continue the offerings that they're trying to create and make food that hopefully then you get to nourish your body with.
Jacob Fox 14:36
Yeah, absolutely. And the experience aspect of it, I think, is you know, something that drives a lot of passion towards me, like, you know, trying to get people who, you know, haven't been on a farm, whether they're, you know, city dwellers, I grew up with, you know, very little family connections to farms. You know, I had a family connection to like ranches and you know, kind of that like outdoors but we didn't know anyone with a farm growing up and so Uh, you know, I would have loved to have had that opportunity. Because you know, then maybe I would have thought that that was a viable career. What I'd like to create for people is understanding, like, there's kind of a problem in the world of agriculture right now where farmers, you know, really don't make a good living for the most part. And there's a lot of factors that go into that. And so there's a lot of like negativity about getting into the world of farming, but I am like, you talk to me, I'm the most positive person about it. And so it's just funny to have like that, you know, big gap between like people saying, oh, never get into farming, it's a horrible job versus me saying, you know, I'm so excited, and many others are as well, you know, there's so many of them out in Vermont, and, you know, the Hudson Valley, and you know, where we were 15, 20 years ago, and where we are now is like leaps and bounds.
Stephanie Mara 15:47
Yeah. And you know, something that you said earlier of what you're eating, is what that other thing is eating. You said it much better than I just said it...
Jacob Fox 15:58
You are what you eat and you are what you eat eats.
Stephanie Mara 16:01
Yes, exactly that, you know, I think that is such an excellent point that I want to bring back around again. And because it's not just about even, you know, if you're listening to this, and you're someone who, you know, maybe has set up boundaries around consuming animal protein, and that's what works for you to each their own. But I think also, even if you think about like, Okay, your vegetables are eating in some respect the environment that they're in. And so you know, that that is also kind of shaping your expression of your body and the world. And, you know, I know that EWG, which is the Environmental Working Group, they come out with each year, the Clean 15, and the Dirty Dozen. And what that basically means is that they come out with each year, you know, the vegetables and fruits that have the most pesticides on them, and the vegetables and fruits that have the least pesticides on them. So that should you not want to buy something that is labeled organic, which is often up charged, you know, that you can be like, okay, it's fine to buy this as an onion, you know, probably doesn't have a lot of pesticides on it. But I'm curious if you could speak to more to like, why is that important to even know.
Jacob Fox 17:09
Ooooo I mean, it's interesting, because that really is a list that is related to the big agricultural system, which, you know, there really is two separate worlds, there is the big agricultural system and then there's people are selling at farmer's markets. And, you know, the big agricultural world, you know, we're talking, you know, cherries are often one that are in the dirty, the Dirty Dozen, you know, most cherries are grown in Michigan, and out in Washington, and you know, in Montana at this point, you know, in these big, you know, mono cropped orchards that are being sprayed, and because of the factors of the weather, it's a sensitive crop, but like, I have a neighbor with 15 cherry trees, who doesn't spray them at all. And it's back to like, it's not the cow, it's the how thing. And for me, like my life goal is to make people understand that, like our big agricultural system has really failed us, like, and I know that that's like a big statement to make. But you know, when you really start to think about it, the big agricultural system has treated food like commodities. So it's like, alright, you know, we can put this many cherries on this acre of land, we're going to make their growth only go to a certain height, we're going to create equipment that can go over those cherries and harvest them along the way. And then we're going to pump out this giant product, we're gonna have packing houses all along the way, you know, that are going to have these giant refrigerated and so the unfortunate thing about that is that actually costs way more than I mean, the one like caveat here is that the big agricultural system allows us to not eat seasonally. So you know, you can be someone down in Arizona eating cherries every single week of the year, but like, is that good? That's this kind of disconnect between the big agricultural world that wants to tell you oh, you know, you'll always be able to get whatever you want. And I mean, this is like a, you know, a psychological thing like delaying gratification, you know, not having, oh, I want cherries today, I get cherries today, versus like, I want cherry, cherries are actually my favorite fruit, but they don't come out till July. Guess what, in July, I'm gonna be neck deep in cherries, but I'm gonna wait until then. That is a huge thing, like getting back to the seasonality of working, you know, understanding that the big agricultural systems while they can produce really exciting numbers, they're heavily subsidized. So they're not exactly competing in any fair marketplace, and then they're putting out a worse product. You know, there's a lot of solutions to this, but incentivizing more localized production, like smaller scale will allow us to get away from these big demands where it's like alright the rest of the nation needs cherries from Washington, Michigan and Montana, rather than, you know, him having a few trees, her having a few trees, you know, and everyone just kind of managing it like that.
Stephanie Mara 20:18
Yeah, what it really makes me think of is what you were saying earlier, of when something has to ship such a long way. And that's what you're talking about this agricultural system that these big productions are being created in very specific states. And then they have to travel such far away that by the time it gets to you, you think, Oh, I'm just buying what I like. And it could actually not be as nutritionally dense as something that maybe you got from a local farmers market. And that does play an effect in your body where you know, something, if you kind of Google search, like, Oh, what is the nutritional qualities of this food, and you think, Oh, I'm getting a good source of magnesium in this food, just as an example, you might not be because of the way that that food was grown, and how far it needed to travel to get to you that you think you're getting something that your body really isn't. And then you think, why do I feel so bad all the time? And it might actually, you know, look, I want to caveat all of this with on your food healing journey, sometimes you just have to choose what you can choose. And you're going to do the best that you possibly can. And sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes the quality of your food makes a huge difference.
Jacob Fox 21:35
Yeah, absolutely. And the journey, and that's what I've, you know, learned from you is that, you know, it's not super easy. I mean, I think different people are different, like, you know, I like to tell people Oh, if you eat a grass fed burger, you know, grass fed grass finished, you're going to immediately know the difference between a McDonald's hamburger. Now, my father will probably disagree with me on that, you know, and so it really becomes this like journey that you try certain things and you allow yourself to do certain things like, oh, you know, what, think I have, you know, a gluten intolerance or something. It's like, alright, well, maybe try to get like the freshest sourdough that you can get. And that's a step in your journey. Well, guess what, it's still a problem. All right now, you know, versus, you know, going straight from Wonder Bread, white bread to no bread, you know, it's a journey.
Stephanie Mara 22:25
Yeah, absolutely. It's such an excellent point. You know, I talk with a lot again of those that I work with about how they might go abroad. And they think that they have a gluten sensitivity, but they'll have a piece of bread in Europe somewhere or something like that. And it digests with them totally fine. Their systems are totally different. The soil that they're growing their crops in completely different than our systems over here in the United States. And I think that's such an important thing to keep in mind that again, it might not actually be about the food, it's about the quality of how that food was cared for and created to then end up in your body.
Jacob Fox 23:02
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, like, Europe has banned neonicotinoids, which is like a really big thing that is bad for bees, but like, we don't really have those protections in America. And it varies state by state. And so that's kind of a confusing aspect of it, being aware of exactly what you're saying, like within your food system, you know, what are the things that I'll probably be able to find and then what things do I maybe need to look a little bit harder for?
Stephanie Mara 23:28
Yeah, I remember that when I was first getting into playing with different foods. I remember the first time I went to a farmers market, and this was a very long time ago at this point. But you know, I had a just a conventional, you know, non organic zucchini that I had bought from the store. And then I went and I bought a zucchini from a farmers market. And I went home and I cooked both of them separately. And I was like, can I taste the difference? Does it actually matter? And for me, you know, I do have a very sensitive palate, but as you try and experiment over and over and over again, with how does this taste different to me, like buy some ground meat or vegetable or whatever it might be, buy a canned bean and then make boiled beans fresh and start to play a little bit with noticing can I taste the difference here? And how does each one maybe digest differently in my body? I think that kind of approaching this with a lot of sense of play. And you know, you discover that actually you really liked the taste of you know, conventional whatever like great no problem. You get to trust your body. But what I found for myself is I felt like as I moved more and more to that farmers market zucchini, it tasted fresher to me it tasted more vibrant. It digested easier in my body like I noticed a difference.
Jacob Fox 24:59
Yeah absolutely, the biggest thing for me is eggs. If I ever go out on like a trip with friends and they go to the supermarket and they're like, Hey, we're gonna pick up food for the weekend, I'm like, I will pay extra for the good eggs. Because those really heavily mass produced eggs, I mean, they just don't feel right in my stomach, in my with my mind, I just don't feel properly nourished. And so I will spend extra, which I believe will carry me longer, you know, that's an interesting aspect of this all is like, you know, if something is nutrient dense, it might actually be able to carry you longer. And instead of four eggs, you need three or you know, you can start to, you know, kind of play with things, but that one for me is like the, the absolute killer is like, I'll try as hard as I can to not eat conventional eggs. Because I also know what conventional egg production looks like, whether it's animal welfare, or environmental sustainability, it fails on all accounts. And so, you know, versus pasture raised chickens is I mean, chickens have incredible ecosystem value in their ability to like, eat ticks, for example, you know, out in the northeast, we have a huge problem with ticks. And so it's like, great get some chickens out there and get some free eggs too.
Stephanie Mara 26:10
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. If you crack open, conventional egg, and just even see the difference of the color of the yolk, and like go and buy an egg from, you know, maybe a farmers market or in your grocery store that says something more like pasture raised, and you'll automatically see a huge difference. Like I remember the first time your brother and my husband, you know, we cracked open the difference of the egg and just seeing how bright yellow, that pasture raised chicken, that egg is. I mean, it's incredible. And then your mother, my mother in law, has started buying chickens and just even seeing her kind of dive into what are the best things to feed these chickens? And how do I want to care for these chickens so that they lay eggs that have that bright yellow yolk, you know, you actually start to break it down and see how much goes into the process of when the person who's caring for the animal and caring for the soil cares for that thing that is produced out of it, you know, it just comes full circle back to you.
Jacob Fox 27:21
Absolutely. And you know, you've taught me this thing you know about being really present, when I eat, try not to like watch TV or scroll on TikTok or, you know, do all these things like really being present when I eat. And you know, I think that relates a lot to the whole journey of acquiring it as well, like, you know, if I acquire it, and I'm not really sure about how it was farmed, I have a little bit of uneasiness in me that you know, might not make me as settled when I'm eventually going to be eating it. But if I know that, like, yeah, like my friend grew this, like it helped improve his soil, like I'm giving him money that's going to help him pay his bills, it's going to help nourish me, like I've already had so many bonuses, and then add that on to the increased nutrient density. And I mean, there's a reason that I talk so passionately about food is because I've experienced that world. And we used to live like this, you go 1000s of years and even more recently, and you know, there's still cultures living like this today. And, you know, we're just so confused about, like, what do we do during our days, and it's like, being a part of the food system is something to do.
Stephanie Mara 28:28
Yeah, that's such an interesting point to bring forth is that we can't be here without food, we all are going to be in relationship with food our entire lives. And so I think oftentimes, where I'm first starting with most individuals is just regardless of what food you're eating, you know, I know, we're talking about getting a little bit more conscientious about the quality of the food, but even just saying I am having a relationship with food, even if it is a McDonald's burger, you know, like you are having a relationship with food in that moment, we are never going to get away from the fact that we are going to have a relationship with this thing our entire lives. And what you're pointing out really just even kind of thinking through when you sit down to a meal, and just say like, okay, like how can I even put my body into a state of relaxation of feeling really good about what I'm nourishing my body with and even just what you reflect on of, oh, I helped my friend and like that's gonna help him live this life. And, you know, I know how much heart and soul he poured into this food, like puts you into a relaxation response to then be able to eat that food in an optimal state.
Jacob Fox 29:37
Absolutely, absolutely. And you know, there are caveats in this. You know, I think there's been a huge grow in the in the local food movement, but there are concerns about food safety, and there are concerns, you know, just because your friend bought some mushroom spawning, and he's spawning mushrooms in his garage it doesn't necessarily mean it's ideal. And so it's really just about asking questions and doing a little bit of research and yeah, if your friend is doing everything aboveboard, and then that is an incredible feeling to support them. And then to have that extra nourishment. Yeah.
Stephanie Mara 30:13
So if someone, for example, was going to go to their local farmer and start asking them questions, what kind of questions should they ask them?
Jacob Fox 30:20
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, tillage is like the big thing that people read about with regards to soil health. Tillage is it is very damaging, but there are ways to do it in like these zones so that you don't create like a big erosion problem. So ask your farmer how they till, you know, and they'll say, either they'll it'll be all the way from I strip till it which is bad, too, you know, I'm really good about like zone tilling only, you know, in very specific areas that I need to plant these plants. And so tillage is a big one. You know, how do you fertilize your crops? If they say they buy you know, chemical fertilizers, then you know that, but if they say they use, you know, all animal manures, or they use like compost, for example, which is usually like yard waste and food scraps. So if they're not using chemicals, they're probably using manure or compost. And so that's this next level where like, you know, it used to be okay, just to be like, Oh, manure, compost, but now you got to be like, well, where's your manure come from? Where's your compost come from? Because, unfortunately, there are things in you know, the animal world, like, you know, heavy antibiotics are things that, you know, might not necessarily be bad for you, but might not be necessarily as nourishing as you would have thought. So, ask how they fertilize, ask if they till, and then, you know, ask how they, you know, support pollinators and how they, you know, support the creatures on the farm that, you know, are doing that unsung labor. And, you know, those three questions you'll have, you know, a huge conversation, you know, obviously, there's tons of, you know, information out there on the internet, like, I mean, there's, you know, documentaries, like Kiss the Ground is a really good group that has been getting popular in the last few years, they've made a few documentaries, there's some books, there are some farmers really doing some incredible stuff out there, that actually gives you a lot of hope. That's one thing that being in the world of agriculture, there is a lot of hope. And there is a lot of good things happening. And so really excited to move towards that.
Stephanie Mara 32:26
Yeah, I know, this can be such a huge world to kind of get to know and learn more about so I love you went into the direction of other resources. I'm curious, besides that movie you just referenced, are there any other like your favorite books or other resources that you feel like would be really great for someone to kind of dip a toe into this?
Jacob Fox 32:44
Yeah, um, for historical perspective, Dirt: The Erosion of Civilization, it's, it's a really like digestible book that, you know, goes back in time, you know, talks about how the Romans eroded their soil, the Mayans eroded their soil, all these incredible cultures, eroded their soil, and we're doing the same and you know, it just kind of talked about, you know, how important it is to protect our soil. And then it kind of goes in how you can and what practitioners are doing that, you know, as it relates to like animal agriculture. Allan Savory has been doing a lot of work. So there's the Savory Institute that he has founded. And he has a lot of YouTube content that basically anyone within the Savory Network are like really solid practitioners. The Bionutrient Food Association, Dan Kitteridge, that I shared with you, I think his father worked for Rodale Institute for years and years, and just was like, you know, trying to figure out, you know, everything's about like, a tipping point, like, how do we get it from this world where, like, if you, if you're, you know, looking at the big agricultural world, from just a really rational perspective, you're like, this is not rational at all, you know, just like many of our systems, and it's like, okay, how do we get from here to here, and what you know, Dan Kitteridge has done and what I really like is, you know, kind of poked on the aspect that like, imagine one day you go into your supermarket and there's a carrot right there that says it is nutrient dense up to this level. And then there's a carrot right next to it that says, this carrot is not nutrient dense at all, you know, which one are you going to buy? And so they're trying to make little scanners so that you can go into your, into your local grocery store and actually figure out the nutrient density of it on your own, but they're also trying to work with like supermarket retailers and being like, hey, stop putting fresh, natural all these words that really don't relate to anything. Put like this one has no chemicals on it. This one is, you know, nutrient dense, and this one caused a bloom in the Gulf of Mexico, you know, like give us the facts and information and we are knowledgeable to make those choices. And so that's where people like Dan Kitteridge, and others are trying to create proof almost out of, you know, the mass of data that we currently have. It's like, all right, how do we show that data in a way that's going to push people in a different direction. And so that's a few. I mean, there's tons more Joel Salatin is a funny one, he's kind of got, like a more like, good old boy sensibility. But he has been a regenerative practitioner for like 40 or 50 years, and has just like, you know, come up against some really wild things like, you know, if you want to do a lot of good things in agriculture, the government is actually like against you. And so he kind of like talks you through that. But that's where it's really important for people who are listening and anyone else to really advocate for policies, because there's like tons of agricultural policies that happen, like the farm bill is every five years. And it basically sets the tone for agriculture for the next five years, like we're talking up to, like a trillion dollars are spent, and they're currently spent, you know, corn, soy, wheat, rice, you know, big agriculture, but they could be spent, in, you know, having farmers provide good ecosystem services, or a whole range of different incentives. And so that's where, you know, people who are really interested, there is a policy angle to this, and you know, they can reach out to their representatives, and, you know, their representatives might be on, you know, the National Agriculture committees, and you get people from all around the country saying they care about this. And that's how things can change.
Stephanie Mara 36:35
Yeah, I so appreciate you just listing the abundant amount of resources, I will make sure to list all of those in the show notes. And I'm curious how listeners can keep in touch with you or if they have any questions, and they want to reach out maybe not to their local farmer, but as a farmer in general, how can they get in touch with you?
Jacob Fox 36:52
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, @Fox.ranch on Instagram is what I'm trying to, you know, push things through, like, the ranch is still, you know, in the infancy of building, but there's been a variety of farmers that have reached out to me because of things that I'm doing on the farm. And so I'm using that as kind of like a clearing house. And so yeah, feel free, you know, reach out to me, send me a message. And I mean, this is something I'm really passionate about, obviously. So I'm more than happy to talk with anyone if they have follow up questions.
Stephanie Mara 37:21
Yeah. Well, thanks for sharing everything that you're just obviously so passionate about today, and just your wisdom and your expertise. And for anyone listening, if you have any questions and want to also pass it through me, you can reach out to me at support@stephaniemara.com anytime, and I hope you enjoyed this conversation and I look forward to connecting with you all again real soon. Bye!
Keep in touch with Jacob here:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fox.ranch/
Resources from this episode:
Dirt: The Erosion of Civilization