What Is Fat Bias And How Could It Be Affecting You?

Welcome to the Satiated Podcast where we explore physical and emotional hunger and satiation and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host, Stephanie Mara Fox, your Somatic Nutritional Counselor. Today, I'd like to welcome Lauren Merklin. Lauren is a fat Anti Diet Coach for women. She helps you unlearn diet culture and fatphobia, to live beyond the scale and view your body as an ally instead of an enemy. By taking action together, she helps you end your food and body shame with science. She knows what it feels like to try every diet under the sun because you've been conditioned to believe that your body is wrong. Lauren's passionate about creating a safe space for women, especially plus size, to heal away from diet culture and weight bias so you can finally have a peaceful relationship with food and your body. As an educator and researcher with degrees in English and Chemistry, she uses a non-diet HAES and fat positivity approach to wellness. I love everything that Lauren posts on Instagram, and I'm often liking and re-sharing her content so I'm super excited to talk with you today. Welcome, Lauren!

Lauren Merklin 01:22

Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here. I know, we've done like a live room in the past on Instagram. And I'm a big believer in, you know, reconnecting with our emotions and that is such a difficult thing to do and so I love your work as well and you know, I think it's so needed in this space.

Stephanie Mara 01:40

Yeah, you know, I love talking with you, we did an Instagram Live that you can probably find on both of our Instagram feeds at some point in the last year. And, as we dive in here today, I would love to hear more just for listeners and for us to all get on same page of what is antifat bias? And how have you taught it to those you have worked with? And how have you seen it show up in our culture?

Lauren Merklin 02:07

Yeah, so it's an interesting question, just because if you're not in this space, or you don't live in a plus size body, those are really general questions. But yet, it's something that really does impact all of us in one way or another. And so, you know, whether you are a whatever body size shape, age you're in, this is a topic that can impact you personally, as well as make you more aware of the people around you in the conversation around bodies. So first and foremost, the reason that this is a conversation and is critical is because we have a beauty and body standards that we have been conditioned to believe are the ideal. And there's been a lot of conversation that has been coming out around this and a lot of awareness being drawn to this in a variety of ways.

Lauren Merklin 03:07

One of the terms that's become really popularized is body positivity. But body positivity that we typically see mainstreamed today is not what it started as. And it really has been shifted away from its intent. So today, a lot of what we see in the mainstream as what body positivity is about is about your personal body image issues. So you know, most of us as women and men, although in a different way, but for those who've had the experience of being told what to wear, what not to wear, what's the correct body type, the you know how to wear makeup, you wear too much. I mean, all of these things about our bodies that we're told, are too much, not enough, or just at the end of the day, we feel is wrong, right? Like my body is wrong. And so it's not a bad thing to be exploring and talking about and normalizing that your body is wonderful as it is, right. But that's not what body positivity started.

Lauren Merklin 04:27

Body positivity started as a movement, generally by fat, black women as a way to create acceptance and awareness for all bodies, but specifically their bodies. Because society was really creating this ideal that they were never going to be and shouldn't have to meet. And so this began as a movement for honoring bodies and body shapes and body types. But it really was not about your personal body image, it was about access. And so this is where it's really been shifted in today's mainstream, and has decentered the original voices that it's meant for. And that has been a bit tricky to navigate. Because there's nothing wrong with wanting to repair. We all should be repairing the relationship that we have with our bodies and our body image, right, because it impacts so much of not only us, but those around us, especially if you have little ones that you're raising. I mean, generational, you know, there's such a big wide impact. But the goal of the movement was to provide access. It's not just like, oh, we should accept all bodies, and that sounds really pretty and really wonderful. And yes, we should. But it was about providing access for all bodies.

Lauren Merklin 06:02

And what I mean by access is, if you've never walked into a store, and wondered if you're going to be able to find a piece of clothing in your size, that's access. When you go to the doctor's office, and you are not concerned about equipment fitting your body so that you have the appropriate information to make medical decisions, then you haven't had to worry about access. When you have not had to wonder if you will be able to fit in an airline seat, or that there will be appropriate seating. And it's not just fat bodies that have had those question marks where, you know, disabled individuals, you know, age has impacted, what kind of seat is appropriate for you, so you know, it's not just about this one group of people. But, the reason this conversation is important for all of us to be talking about is because for a lot of the conversations that are happening today, having a weight bias, shaming people for their bodies, is still acceptable when you're talking about plus size or fat individuals. And that's unacceptable, because every body, not just everybody, but every body deserves the just the basic level of respect, and access to clothing and health care and jobs and medical care. You shouldn't have to work so hard to advocate for what everyone else gets naturally. And what's hard about this conversation for those that are not looking at it, curious about it, and that we've all been conditioned to believe is that, well, if people would just lose weight, then that wouldn't be a problem. And so it creates this perception that it's fat people's fault that they don't have access. And that's wildly inaccurate, for a lot of reasons. But at the end of the day, that actually doesn't matter. Because no person should have to beg other people for respect, and basic care, and clothing, you know. So that's kind of where just as a foundation of the individual versus a collective of access. Like all of us are working on body image issues, because we've all been raised in a society that has an ideal, and that ideal just to kind of give us all some language to work with. Right.

Lauren Merklin 08:59

So probably most of us have heard fatphobia before. Whether you understand it or not, you've probably heard the word somewhere. But I want to address that briefly, because although that's a word that I use sometimes because that's a word that people have come across and will understand that it's really inaccurate. Yeah, it's an inaccurate term, though, because it's not being afraid of fat people. When you break that down, it's like, Okay, that's really strange to say.

Stephanie Mara 09:31

That is a very good point.

Lauren Merklin 09:34

And it is the reason that we really should be shifting away from that word is because it's for phobias, in general, like this is not the appropriate lane that that should live, right. So an anti fat bias is probably a more accurate term to be using because it is not creating issues in the mental health space, and some of those things. But fat phobia is probably the more mainstream word. It's not about being afraid of fat people. Right? It's really an anti fat bias is where you have this ingrained, conditioned belief, that fatness is wrong, that it's a moral issue that there there is a good and bad attachment to that. And that is stemming from a long history that I will not bore us with. But to put it in a nutshell, that is really coming out of this otherness.

Lauren Merklin 10:40

Dr. Sabrina Strings writes an amazing book around the history of bodies. And really, through her research outlines the part of where this ingrained belief that that being fat is the worst thing that you could be, is coming out of our beliefs around race around this otherness. And what I mean by otherness is that this us versus them mentality, right. And so, you know, if you are coming into a country where your perception is, is that the indigenous people that are there are, you know, if you're there to save them, which is a lot of how countries have come to be, you know, colonialism, you have to, you know, you have to justify your behavior. And so for a lot of this foundation of not just American history, but a lot of places, you know, if I look like you, if I eat like you, if my body looks like yours, and shape, you know, or color, all those types of things, that it gets really difficult to justify your feelings of superiority, you're taking things from other people, I mean, all of this convoluted stuff, right. And I won't go into all this history. But suffice it to say, the reason I'm bringing this up is because we have created this perception of in order for me to feel good about what I'm doing, and what my body looks like, and my superiority, then I have to create this idea that I'm saving the savages, that I'm saving these other people. And so that meant painting bodies different than our own, or what we're used to seeing as bad. And that's where all of this ingrained morality around bodies started to emerge from and why it has been so prevalent.

Lauren Merklin 12:55

And so when we think about an ideal body that generally is going to be thinner, it's going to be European descent, because of all of these things ingrained. You know, I've had some of whether it be followers or clients, you know, they're like, Why? Why is race a part of the conversation around body positivity? Why is race in this conversation about fat liberation, like, I don't understand how those are connected. The reason they're connected, is because of how we have interacted with countries coming into other countries, colonialism and all of these pieces, it's because we have had the innate desire to justify behavior by creating an other, you know, it has to be an us versus them. And if we all look alike, if our bodies are the same, you know, and we embrace everyone is acceptable, then it gets really difficult to justify bad behavior. Right? So, you know, that's where we've seeped into this morality around food, morality around bodies. And that's only become more and more ingrained, as we have had all of these things continue, you know, when we and I'm going to say a word that typically when I write it, I have an asterisk in it, because it is a word that is triggering for many people, the obesity epidemic is nonsense. And the reason I say that is, you know, and people may be listening and going, but there's science that backs that up. Yeah. Okay. But also, you have to look at what the science is doing and what is not there. And I could go off on a tangent around the evidence around that, but

Stephanie Mara 14:42

By bringing in all of these layers, because as you see, it's so much bigger than, you know, because I think we talk surface level wise on why this bias is there and how we can approach it but I love that you're going into the history a little bit of this is so deep into the origins of our culture of our world.

Lauren Merklin 15:06

I think it's important because we think that these ideas manifested out of our brain. And they don't. You do not, you are not born as a little baby believing anything about other people, honestly, you are raised and nurtured and conditioned by where you live, the country, the family, the culture, the society, the time in history, so there's so much that goes into our belief systems, around a lot of things. And unless you are bringing in context and awareness, and challenging those, and understanding the pitfalls, then that's where it gets really easy to have this all or nothing mentality, that traps us with our food, that traps us with our bodies, and this belief that it's right or wrong, and there's no gray area, it's because we have tried so hard as a society to simplify things that people can have an understanding. The problem is, is that unless we are educating about the nuance of all of these complex issues, then we walk away believing that they're simple. And it's super hard, because they're not. And in the everyday practice, they're not going to be simple. And then that disconnect, like, throws us for a major loop. Right. So you know, there is so many layers that I cannot go into in a short time.

Lauren Merklin 16:49

But I think it is important to kind of just touch on some of those points. Because if this is the first time that you're hearing some of these ideas, then there's work to do. If this is the first time that you've heard the body positivity has really in the last decade, come to a place of being about you as a person and your personal body image and is not a movement, then there's work to do. If this is the first time that you are hearing about how race has shifted how we see bodies, and all of those, like, there's work to do. If this is the first time that you're hearing that, Yes, there is a lot of science out there, but that that evidence needs to be assessed. And the reason I say that is because, I'm a researcher. And some of the studies I've seen, I would have been thrown out of my research classes in university, if I had handed that crap in. And yet we use those to say, Well, look, my beliefs around bodies and health are accurate. So this whole concept of an obesity epidemic is way less about the science and way more about politics and money. And the reason I say that is because if you have, who funds the science?

Stephanie Mara 18:22

Yep, I was just thinking, like, you got to look at who paid for the research...

Lauren Merklin 18:25

You have to look at the money, follow the money! You know, and that doesn't mean that every piece of science is tainted, right? I believe in science, I am a scientist. So I believe that we also have to look at how research was conducted. Because if you walk into, this is where bias is super important as a term, we all have bias, because we are all in a world that has created our perceptions and beliefs around everything. So your job as a researcher is to try to limit how much your bias skews the results and the perceptions and the outcomes. And you have to be aware of your own bias and own that bias in order to try and create as little bias as possible. That's the goal, right? But if you walk into it being paid by drug companies that are pushing weight loss pills, if you walk into a study that you're conducting, believing that fatness is wrong, that weight loss is the goal, you know, you're looking to pull out all of these things around that belief system. So that's where it gets tricky with some of the science is there's some really crappy science out there. Righ. On both sides like it's not you know, it's not us versus them type of thing. It's about having a basic understanding of what research is about and science is about.

Lauren Merklin 20:05

And so part of it is also understanding causation versus correlation. And I don't want to get super technical, but if you've never understood or heard those terms before, you do need to have an understanding of that because so many people are like, well, fatness is wrong, and weight loss is important, for diabetes or, you know, diseases or obesity is a disease in of itself. Okay, first of all, obesity is not a disease. There's no research that supports that. Yet, we talk about it as such, because, again, going back to the money, and politics, a committee decided that in order for us to take it seriously, we had to deem it to be a disease. Okay, now, we took it so seriously, that like, we are shaming people, which does more damage than the actual fat and a lot of cases. Research does have plenty of research about that. But going back to correlation versus causation like this, if I could get everyone to understand that this one concept when they're looking at research and talking about, it doesn't matter if it's any research, correlation is where you have two things present seemingly connected, possibly, possibly connected, even. And you're trying to figure out is there is a connection between these two things that have been present at the study at the same time. Causation is where one thing directly causes something else to happen, right. So that's like you jumping into your car and turning the key or pressing the start button, and having the engine turn on. You set off a series of events that cause one thing to directly cause another thing. But if you jump in your car, and every time that you jump in your car, your outdoor light goes on, when you turn that key, both things are present at the same time. But it would be really odd to believe every time I turn the key on in my ignition in my car, the light in my house turns on. So it's up to researchers to explore why is the light turning on when I'm pressing the key? Are those things related? Is there a reason they're happening at the same time? Do they go together? Is there a causation? So on and so forth. But we have, without that basic understanding, we think that because there is something to do with weight in certain studies that we're conducting, it's like, oh, well, this is because of the weight loss or weight gain, instead of saying this is present, But why? And getting to the root of that why.

Lauren Merklin 23:02

Because here's the thing, there are 108 variables to your weight range. And I'm happy to give you the the source on that if that is a new number for you. But there's 108 variables on your weight range, and very few of them are under your control. So what I mean by that is where you live, the environment, the amount of trauma that you've had, the genetics that you have, the education, the I mean, we've reduced weight loss and gain to two things, calories in and calories out. Just calories in calories out. The newest one that I heard this week was just believe that you're skinny and you will be. Which is the biggest amount of BS I have heard in my life.

Stephanie Mara 23:58

I feel like tight in my body even hearing that.

Lauren Merklin 24:02

I mean, I'm pretty sure there's a lot of people in this world that have like, wished and hoped and prayed and whatever you do, to the universe to be thin, because let's be honest, and this is where the weight bias comes into play. If you can honestly say like, I don't want to gain weight. If that's a fear for you, if that's like a big concern, if that's something you're working to avoid. You have to ask yourself why? And for most of us, there's been a conditioning to believe that this will change your life. Like I used to believe that if I could reach my quote unquote ideal weight that I would be the happiest I've ever been. Everything will. I mean it was like I thought I was going to be in a Disney movie. Right? Everything magically works out. I'm going to have, you know, forest animals cleaning my house if I I can just reach my ideal weight. Which is obviously, would be fantastic to have people clean my house, but complete nonsense, right. So we put all of these stories and narratives and attachments to body size, believing that that's going to solve our problems. But 108 variables, most of which are out of your control, say your weight range is really, based on a lot of things. Dieting heavily impacts, how your weight range works out. Meaning that 95% of diets result in regaining, and 66% of those that have dieted are going to not only regain what they lost, but regain more than they lost, which means that most of us will experience yo yo dieting, whether you intend to or not, whether that's your goal or not, which is research is really clear that yo yo dieting, going up and down the scale, even in a small amount going up and down, up and down, up and down, up and down, takes a much larger toll on your health, then just remaining at a stable and higher weight. So there's all of these factors that come into play. And the reason that I mentioned the 108 variables is because we think that weight is a behavior.

Stephanie Mara 26:29

And under our control....

Lauren Merklin 26:33

Right.

Stephanie Mara 26:34

But, also not.

Lauren Merklin 26:34

Yes. But, it's an outcome. It's a result of 108 things. I mean, if you can control your genetics, then like, you know, you've got other things going on, that you might want to address first. But like, are there things that you can do for your health? Absolutely. Are there things within your power with health behaviors to do something about? Absolutely. But the thing that was mind blowing for me, and my own journey with repairing my relationship with food and my body, is when I realized that I could do those things outside of whatever the scale did. Instead of living and dying by the scale, I could focus on health behaviors that I could actually do something about. Meaning, whether or not you smoke is a health behavior that will I mean, research has clearly indicated that that will impact your overall quality of life, and health. And that's within your control. You know, you might have to take steps to get help with that. Moving your body, going to do things that you enjoy, social interaction, connection, has a very, very big impact on your overall health and well being. Nourishing your body, whatever that might look like for you.

Lauren Merklin 27:59

It is not nourishing to serve yourself a big heaping side of guilt with every single morsel that passes your lips. You know, that is actually worse for your body. Because it impacts your stress levels. And your stress levels actually have more of an impact than some of these things on your overall well being both biologically, as well as mentally and emotionally. Like your body shifts when your stress levels are so insanely high. It changes how your body operates, it changes how your body feels physically, it changes how your body feels mentally and emotionally. Getting enough sleep. Like these are all health behaviors that you can do something about. All of those may interplay with your weight range, but to believe that you can so tightly control what your body is going to take shape in, and the size is insane. And so part of the reason, though, that we have believed for so long that this is true, is because again, if you look back in history, it used to be that the medical world would say don't diet, like that's nonsense.

Lauren Merklin 29:18

But there was a guy that took it upon himself to do that, because he was tired of people making fun of him in society. So he was being body shamed. He was tired of being made fun of and so went on a diet and then wrote like the first self help book about it. And people went wild for it. And basically public pressure, in conjunction with money, made it so that the medical field started to go like well, I guess we should recommend diets. And there's been this long history of basically capitalizing on people's desire to be thin. And then now the newest thing in the last couple of decades has been really putting this paint of, it's not that I want to be thin I want to be healthy. If you want to be healthy, you can do that without living and dying by a scale. If you want to be healthy, you need to take your mental health into just as much consideration and your emotional well being into just as much consideration. Like, if we were to fight so hard for therapy, as much as we do thinness, our society would look drastically different, right? But we have created this idea. This church almost. This religion of thinness. Because we see how people treat fat people. And if you can't admit that, there's work to do. Because any person who lives in a plus size body, any person who lives in a fat body can tell you exactly what that experience is like.

Lauren Merklin 31:04

And when I use the word fat, just to be clear, I probably should have said this at the beginning, I use this as a really neutral descriptor, just as the same that I would describe myself as short, with brown hair, you know, so the descriptors that we use that we don't have a negative attached story to, I have reclaimed that word, I am a fat woman, you know, and so I use that as a descriptor. Obviously, we as a society, and people individually can use that in a very unpleasant way. And so there are many people who don't reclaim that, because there's a lot of pain still attached to it. So please be aware of that, as you are figuring out like, do I use that word? Do I not? How do I, you know, people will will likely let you know.

Stephanie Mara 31:58

Yeah, I'm wondering if we brought this on a personal level of what do you feel like individuals could, like questions they could start asking themselves, like one that you mentioned, was getting curious when there's this big impulse of I have to lose weight, asking yourself, Why? Are there other questions you feel like if we brought this into someone's personal world, they could really start asking themselves some questions to start getting curious about their own beliefs or biases that are maybe operating underneath the surface that they're not aware of?

Lauren Merklin 32:30

Yeah, first of all, I think it's important to understand that we all have anti fat bias. Every single person. Because we've been conditioned to believe those things. We've been conditioned to believe the fat is bad, we've been conditioned to believe that it is better to hurt your body and be thin. How do I know that? Because we're still doing weight loss surgery. Which, you know, I'm not trying to take away or shame anyone's choices for what they've done. You know, your body is for you to make your choices around. What I mean is, is that when we tell people your size is making it so that I'm unwilling to do surgery on your knee, but you can do weight loss surgery first, and then I'll do surgery on your knee. Like that makes no sense. Right? So amputating your stomach instead of fixing your knees so that you can move your body more doesn't make sense. So there's a lot of these things where asking, Why is a great question to ask in a lot of these situations.

Lauren Merklin 33:34

But one of the other questions that I asked, and this is for anyone at any time, is what does taking care of my body look like outside of weight loss? So if weight was out of the equation, and it wasn't about the scale at all, what is taking care of my body actually look like? That was a really important question for me, as I was repairing my own relationship with food and my body, because it was a revolutionary question for me. Like I had never been...someone who has always grown up plus size and having that experience, I had never been told or had been encouraged to explore moving my body for pleasure, moving my body because it reduced my stress. It was always an attachment to fitness is for you to lose weight and to punish your body. Eating in ways to lose weight was always the goal instead of I want to eat vegetables because I'm craving something fresh. I want more fiber in my life, because I want to have, you know, a regular digestive system. We have all of these things that we've attached to the scale that are wonderful, amazing processes that our body does for us on a regular basis. And yet we've reduced it to gaining or losing weight rather than being about how does this help my body? How am I helping my body?

Lauren Merklin 35:12

And something else to kind of consider as well is, so often we're like, Well, I can't trust my body. Well your body can't trust you. Because we've been in this restrictive mindset for so long. And so, you know, if you are on this journey of repair, it is going to take time. But challenging diet culture, challenging anti fat bias, challenging the body and beauty standards that we've been told are the ideal and the thing to shoot for, challenging those, has to be a part of your repair work. Because otherwise what's happening is, is that you're only doing part of the work, because so many of us think that there are, these are our own ideas, when in reality, they've come from a lot of places. And so, for example, the stomach is usually an area that many women struggle with whatever your size, and part of that is because, especially, I would say somewhere, probably in the like 30 to 50 range, there's been this really strong perception of that a flat belly is a requirement for a lot of things.

Lauren Merklin 36:31

But if you think about the early 2000s, and this is not my idea, I actually learned this from Lucy Goldring who's an amazing body confidence coach. And I know that she didn't create this idea either as she's done her own research, but she and I did an amazing Instagram Live that you can go and look at on my Instagram about this concept. But if you remember back to the to the early 2000s and that decade, you know, nothing tastes as good as skinny feels, which is complete nonsense. But it's this era of looking, I think it was cocaine chic is one of the terms where it is rail stick thin bodies. But this term that Lucy used that just clicked for me, was that the stomach during that decade of the 2000s, the stomach is the accessory. Meaning if you look at a lot of the fashion during that time, if you had a flat stomach, you showed it. Crop tops, peekaboo midriffs, the way the pants were cut. Like everything was saying your clothing was all cut to match this ideal body, right? The way that fashion demonstrated the ideal in magazines. And I mean, they're all these different ways. And it was like if you had that kind of body, if you had that stomach, that was the accessory. Forget trying to match your purse, forget your jewelry or a scarf, or anything. You know, it was the belly. And so if that was a time in which you were evolving and creating a lot of awareness around your body, then you grew up with this mentality, that the stomach was this all consuming, like ideal thing that having this flat stomach, if you didn't have that, then there was something horribly wrong with you. And part of what I will encourage you to think about is when is the last time you have lovingly touched your belly? Or moved your stomach in a loving gesture? If you avoid touching a body part, if you're avoiding looking at it, showing it, looking like you have a belly in any capacity is like horrifying to you. Understand first and foremost, that is not something that you manifested out of your own brain. That was something that you were conditioned and taught because and here's it here's how I know this.

Lauren Merklin 39:21

When is the last time that you've heard someone say that the baby fat or baby rolls on a newborn are not the cutest thing they've ever seen. We talk about babies and we talk about baby's bodies so lovingly. And there comes a point where then all of that changes, whether for ourselves or how we talk about it to each other, that didn't come from nowhere that that came from very specific places. So challenging those ideas like where is this coming from? And it's not to say that you don't have an original thought in your brain. Right? Like, we're all thinking amazing human beings. But it's if you've never thought about Where's this coming from? That's a question that I would encourage you to start asking about, where do these thoughts come from? And then the other thing is, is what story are you attaching to it?

Stephanie Mara 40:24

Yeah, such a good question.

Lauren Merklin 40:25

So we all attach stories to our bodies, to perceptions, we're so consumed with what are other people going to think about me. Because we've attached a story to it, if they think this then I'm going to lose that, and then my life is over, or whatever, right? Like we escalate things in our own brains. So part of it is also really getting to the root of what am I afraid of? What is the root thing here of the story and narrative I'm attaching to something. So going back to the stomach, you know, I've had clients that are just like, I'm really concerned, I'm really worried that, you know, I've gained weight over the pandemic and seeing people again, or, you know, I have a larger stomach than I did the last time I saw so and so, right. Yeah. And it's like, okay, so what does that mean? Why is that something that feels so terrible for you? And then a lot of times, it's like, well, because, you know, I've gained weight, and that's bad. Okay, but why is that bad? Like, what are you really afraid of, and getting to the root of like, what that narrative really means, because it's not about the weight, it's not about the belly, it's not about having someone see you in a different size.

Lauren Merklin 41:56

For most of us, it's going to really translate into, well, I'm afraid if I gained weight, and they make fun of me that that's really about, I'm not loved anymore, or I'm rejected, I'm not acceptable.

Stephanie Mara 42:11

I don't belong.

Lauren Merklin 42:12

Yes, those are core needs as human beings that we all have. So when those are violated, or those are threatened, it feels very, very, very, very concerning for our bodies, for our minds for our very being. So we try to do all these different ways to avoid those things, right. And if you are a people pleaser, for a variety of reasons, or perfectionists or, you know, in many of us, I think you struggle with food and bodies fall into some of those categories, then, those things feel that core of I'm not loved, I'm not desirable, you know, if you're talking about a partner, I'm worried I'm not desirable. And that's real. You know, and what gets really tricky is if you live in a larger body, if you are a fat person, then the reality is, is that that may impact how other people feel about you. That may impact how your partner sees you. But here is the thing. And I speak from experience when I share that. But here's the thing, that's not about you and your body. That's about how they see bodies. That's about how they've been conditioned to see desire. Because if you're in a relationship with someone that is only built on what you can do for them, and how you look for them, that is pretty objectifying as a person. And unfair. Because you are more than your body, you are more than what you do for other people. Like you don't have to, nor do you deserve to have to justify to people why your very existence should matter. And that really is what fat acceptance or fat liberation, which is a term that has had to be used because body positivity has shifted so much away from the original movement. But that is really what that is all about. And that is why it matters for every single person to get on board with that movement or have an awareness at the very least of how we're all impacting that. Because no one should have to justify that their existence should be allowed.

Lauren Merklin 44:44

If you don't want to have to justify that for other people, then we have to be willing, and not only willing, but passionate about ensuring that every single person gets that same treatment because if we're not asking those questions, I mean, because that's really that's usually what the fear around fatness is really about is I don't want the same mistreatment that I see fat people getting. Being the butt of jokes. It's lazy humor. But as a movement, the reason that this is so important for the collective of fat people is because people are literally dying. Weight stigma in the medical field, there's a lot of research that demonstrates that it's a real, a real, real real threat. Meaning that there are a lot of people who are getting improper care, misdiagnosed, not being diagnosed in time. And if you're not having to go to the doctors and be petrified that you're not going to get what you really need for medical care, because all they're going to focus on is your weight, then you are likely not having to wrestle with that level of access. And so when there's conversation around straight size, or thin, versus plus size and fat, and there's a whole spectrum, so I as a fat person still have a lot of privilege, because I experience more access than people who are larger than me. I also experienced a lot of privilege, because I'm a white person. Meaning that I'm not having to only wrestle with lack of access to things due to size, and race and sexual orientation. So the intersectionality of these things also matters. So you know, it can get complicated, to some degree if you're like getting into the nitty gritty of the space. But the reality is, is all we're really looking for is the same access for everyone. The same level of respect, and not having to justify that our existence should matter the same as everyone else. Right. And like when you put it in those terms, I don't understand people who get really upset about it. Unless you're telling yourself a story about what that means.

Stephanie Mara 47:22

Yeah, it's a reflection of personal beliefs. I mean, I think that's a powerful note to end on here of just how much it has to come back to that every single body deserves the same amount of respect. And that it's getting really curious that when your own reactions come up, what is coming up for you, so that that's where the work gets to happen, that you take that opportunity to be like, Oh, that thought that just came up? That's really interesting. Why am I thinking that? And how can I actually use that as an opportunity to deepen into relationship with myself and do the work that needs to be done, so that we get to move along on these movements.

Lauren Merklin 48:06

Yeah. Yeah. Because if you've ever thought to yourself, you know, if you've complimented someone on weight loss, let's say a colleague, and they're just like, oh, yeah, I was really sick. And you know, if you've ever heard and kind of chuckled at, or said yourself, like, oh, man, like I need what you had, so that I can lose, you know, X amount. If you really take a moment and step back from that and go, Did I really say that? I'd rather have cancer, or I'd rather have this disease in order to lose X number of pounds? If that's something that you've kind of nodded your head at or chuckled at or stated or thought, then it's really not about health. Right? It really is something deeper, that needs to be explored, Where does that come from? Why is that? And if we're only stopping at my personal body image, and not pushing it further to looking at everyone getting access, then that also is something that needs to be explored. And there's a lot that you can do if you're looking for that education, there's a lot of I would encourage you to read a couple of books and I'm happy to share those with you so you can put them in the show notes that, you know, I mentioned Dr. Sabrina Strings. Aubrey Gordon is another amazing author who does a lot of work as a fat activist and writer, has an amazing podcast. There's a lot of educators in this space who can help you do the work. But at the end of the day, you got to make the choice. You got to make the choice that it matters, not just to you but the other people you interact with. Because if you have a friend who lives in a larger body, a relative, you know, a sibling, a child, how we talk about our own bodies, how we talk about bodies, the things that we, you know, look at and fill ourselves up with. All of that takes a toll and an impact and sends a message. But it is something that can be shifted. Because it's all about how you're perceiving and looking and belief systems around that. And I mean, goodness knows, I think in the last five years that we've had, I think we've seen that, that that's something that all of us can can absolutely do work on and shift thinking around. But it takes something from within. And the choice to do that. But it's worth it. It's worth it.

Stephanie Mara 50:49

Yeah, absolutely. And commitment that this is not just a one and done. This is something that it's you have to look at it every single day. Because it's something that is in our culture, in social media, in the ethers every single day. So I'm wondering, how can people keep in touch with you? Where can they find you? And do you have any offerings that listeners should know about?

Lauren Merklin 51:13

Yeah. So on Instagram, I am @antidietfatty. Also email Lauren@antidietfatty.com. And in the show notes, you'll see one of the freebies that I offer, because so many of us get stuck with unsolicited comments, right? Nobody enjoys those on food or body. And it's like, I don't know what to say. Right? Because storming out of the room or saying just no, while both 100% valid options are not the only options. And most of us get stuck with like, I don't know how to respond when someone is like, Oh, are you going to eat that? Like, how do you? What do you say to that? So I do have something called Nine Responses. So you can get get access to that. And then in a couple of weeks, I'm going to take that a step further, which is looking at boundaries, and how to create boundaries with diet culture with anti fat bias and people. Like so often, while we're undergoing this shift in our thinking about food and bodies, on a personal level, not everyone goes along on that journey with you. And so it gets really difficult when you're when you're changing your own thinking, how do you protect your energy during that time? How do you protect the repair work that you're doing in ways that feel respectful to both yourself and the people in your life, you know, that you love and care about, and you don't want to just, you know, be like rude and like walk away, you know, which again, is a valid option. But it's how do I create healthy boundaries, to protect my energy and repair as I continue in this journey, without further severing connections with people if at all possible. So in a couple of weeks, I will be hosting a kind of a challenge, if you will, around boundary making and how to do that. Because I think a lot of times we know that something we want. But it's really difficult to kind of know how to actually do that in ways that feel valuable and valuing other people in the process. Because I think a lot of times, a lot of what we see is just pushing people away as a way to protect ourselves. And sometimes you have to do that. Because if other people are unwilling to respect and honor your boundaries, you know, it gets a bit tricky. But there are ways before it gets to that point that you can try. And most of us are trying to keep our connections with people while honoring our own repair work. And then that's really what this challenge will be about. So that'll be at the end of January. And you're welcome to join with that. And I'll have a link for that as well.

Stephanie Mara 54:06

Awesome. Such an important offering. And just thank you so much for your time today. Your presence, your wisdom, this was such an important conversation. And for anyone who's listening, if you have any questions about anything that was discussed today, I will drop both of our email addresses in the show notes as well so you can reach out to either of us and just say thank you so much again, and hopefully we'll hear from you again soon. I'd love to have you back in the future and to everybody listening, have a great rest of your day and connect with you all very soon. Bye!

Keep in touch with Lauren: 

Build Better Boundaries Course (Starting next week!): https://www.antidietfatty.com/courses/boundaries

Website: https://www.antidietfatty.com/

Download her free 9 responses to diet talk so you can protect your own healing while respecting loved ones here: www.antidietfatty.com/f/9responses

Instagram: @antidietfatty

Email: lauren@antidietfatty.com

Resources discussed in this episode: 

108 Factors That Affect Weight: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/296290/obesity-map-full-hi-res.pdf

Sabrina Strings: @SaStrings, sabrinastrings.com, Book: Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat

Aubrey Gordon: @yrfatfriend, yourfatfriend.com, Book: What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat

Lucy Goldring: @lucy.goldring