Making Empowered Food Choices Beyond Diet Culture

Welcome to the Satiated Podcast, where we explore physical and emotional hunger, satiation and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host, Stephanie Mara Fox, your Somatic Nutritional Counselor.

Something I've noticed in food recovery is that certain foods and meals become associated with dieting. Suddenly, you're afraid or feeling resistance to having a salad, or eating certain vegetables or fruits, or making yourself a smoothie because these foods have been somatically connected to deprivation and restriction. Your body tenses, your breath gets shallow, you feel tight, and you hear an internal, "NO, don't eat that." You might find yourself questioning if you're on a diet if you choose the salad over the burger or if you decide you want to order the omelet rather than the pancakes when out to brunch. The sensations attached to NO make it feel like eating these foods are "wrong" and not what your body wants. And when you do eat these foods, you feel panicked about if you're going to get enough, will you be satiated, does this mean you're back on a diet again, and on and on. A part of food recovery can be updating your body's story that all foods are safe but this is not only the foods you have labeled as "bad" but also the foods you used to diet with.

I chat about this and more today with Bonnie Roney. Bonnie is a Registered Dietitian and Certified Intuitive Eating Counselor on a mission to support people as they rebel against diet culture, become intuitive eaters, and transform their relationship with food. Through accessible 1:1 nutrition counseling and her online community, Bonnie is dispelling diet myths and societal “norms” to help people free themselves from guilt and shame surrounding food. When she’s not tackling problematic diet beliefs, she enjoys spending time with her husband and kids, trying out new restaurants, and afternoons at the beach. We chat about the illusion of control in dieting, rebuilding trust with your body, navigating the hunger and fullness scale, the importance of consistent eating, nuances to saying yes and no to foods, understanding food choices beyond dieting, and visualizing your life and finding your identity beyond diets.

Before we dive in, as a reminder, ways you can support the podcast, include leave a review anywhere that you listen to podcasts as it helps others find Satiated. You can also check out all of my affiliate links, join Satiated+ and be able to Ask Me Anything each month, or check out working with me 1:1 I do currently have openings in my private practice or in any of my programs. The next Somatic Eating® Program, which is a live 3 month program, will occur in May. All links HERE. Now, welcome Bonnie! I am super excited that you're here today and to connect with you. I feel like I've been following you on social media for a while and really resonating with the content that you put out. I find that your voice and the way that you frame things is so important for individuals to start to cultivate a little bit more compassionate understanding toward themselves and their food behaviors. And so I'd love to hear a little bit more about how you got into this work and where you're at today with it.

Bonnie Roney 03:43

Yeah, well, thank you so much for having me today, Stephanie, I'm really excited to be here, and thank you for your kind words. I really do try to embody a compassionate lens and voice when talking about these struggles, because for so many people, they're very emotional, they're very personal, they feel very sensitive. So I really appreciate you bringing that up. I've been a dietitian. I became a dietitian in 2016 so it's been several years now, and I was always really kind of drawn to the nutrition space, because I struggled with food for a long time. When I was a teenager, I really struggled with food. Definitely had an undiagnosed eating disorder at one point, and then disordered eating and just some really negative behaviors around food that did not serve me. So that is what really piqued a lot of my interest initially, because I was, like, obsessed with food. There were also several women in my family, who struggled in numerous different ways with food. Sometimes it was on what seemed to be maybe a lesser scale, what we would call like disordered eating, and then others who had diagnosed eating disorders. So I was really surrounded by that kind of environment growing up. And then on top of it, I struggled with food myself, and so I just. Decided that I wanted to become a dietitian because I wanted to help people, like I wanted to help people heal their relationship with food, even when I was actively struggling with food, which is so funny. It's like I knew I wanted to help people, and I was kind of blinded by the fact that I was still struggling with food. When I became a dietitian, my struggles weren't as, like intense, maybe, as they were at like, the height of when I struggled, but I was still struggling, and so throughout my journey of becoming a dietitian and then coming across like the weight neutral space, the anti diet space, I furthered my learning even more, I was able to heal a lot of parts within myself that I didn't even know needed healing until I learned about this space, and that's what ultimately has brought me to where I am today doing the work I do that I absolutely love doing.

Stephanie Mara 05:47

I really appreciate you naming how much the environment that we grow in plays such a predominant role in kind of our first blueprint of what it's even like to have a relationship with food. I grew up with something very similar, of just kind of a household, of, there was always dieting happening, and it kind of gives you this lens of, this is what you're supposed to do with food, is restrict it, or under nutrition your body, or deprive yourself, or kind of, then then go and swing in the opposite direction, and, like, have a free for all and and it doesn't really provide a solid example of what it is even like to have more of a regulating, consistent relationship with food.

Bonnie Roney 06:31

Yeah. And you know, now that I have kids, what is so interesting is I can really see that so many people bring to the table, like, a different paradigm that they live in with food. When I'm talking to other parents or seeing how other parents, like behave and monitor their own kids food intake, it's like I can see these subtle things here and there that start when we are literally so young. Like I have a almost three year old, he'll be three in about two and a half months at the time of this recording, and an almost two year old. There'll be two in about three months from the time of this recording. And so the fact that, like, I already hear these conversations where it's like, I can pick up on little things here and there, about how people kind of, like, monitor their kids, like, food intake, it's like, it just starts so young, like it starts when they're not even two.

Stephanie Mara 07:19

Yeah, absolutely. And I've seen other people even put out posts of how much like going to birthday parties and things like that, how much it starts to shape of like, what you are getting at home, what you're not getting at home. Then you go into someone else's house and you're like, Oh, you have this. Why don't I ever have that? And it gets really confusing. I find that, that's why, I think one of the many, reasons why I felt drawn to diet culture, and why I see so many others drawn to diet culture as well over the years, is because it was finally something that gave like a road map, like it gave some structure where maybe there was none, and then what diets don't teach is how to get out of them, where it's just like, okay, so it gave you a road map, how not to eat, and then it didn't teach you how to get off of it.

Bonnie Roney 08:04

Yeah, I think it really gives us this like false sense of control where and that feels really good in the moment, because so much of life is out of our control. And especially at the time of this recording, there's a lot of really difficult things happening in our world, like really terrible, sad, inhumane things happening in our world. And so you know, when things like that happen, it can feel good and it can feel comforting to know that you have this, like clear set of rules that you can stick to. Okay, I can eat X number of calories a day, or I can step on the scale every day, and at least know my weight like I have this objective number and this objective data that I can go by, but at the end of the day, it's like it's a false sense of control. It feels good in the moment, but how is that impacting us in the long term? And I'm such a big fan of looking at our lived experience with food, because I feel like that can tell us so much, like when I was really struggling with food in the moment, my control that I had around food felt good, right? It felt so good to step on the scale and be like, Okay, I know exactly where I am today, or if I don't like the number, I know what to do with food, right? If I think it's too high, I can restrict my food. If it's lower than I can give myself this like, permission to eat more. Like that made me feel so good. But then at the end of the day, when I looked at the cost of it like it was not serving me, I was obsessed with my weight, literally, like the scale ruled my life. I can look back on vacations I took from years ago and tell you, like from one photo, exactly how much I weighed in that photo, because that's how much it meant to me. And I thought about food 24/7 I had a lot of all or nothing. And so while in the moment, it felt really good when I took a step back and I was like, Is this actually giving me control? It wasn't because I couldn't maintain that control long term, right? Like I was really all or nothing with food, very impulsive. And I think impulsive is just my natural personality, but it showed up a lot with food, and it was super negative for me, and I think for the person listening. You know, sometimes people resonate with me sharing this, and other times people are like, well, you know, I've always been able to maintain my control. Like, that's never changed, but at the end of the day, like you're still listening to this podcast right now. So that tells me that something about your relationship with food, something about the control that you have with food is not serving you right now, and let's explore that, because that means that this false sense of control you have with dieting, with weighing yourself, with whatever tools you use may not be the best thing for you to do long term.

Stephanie Mara 10:36

I completely agree. I talk a lot here of a somatic perspective of that even control is in service of safety, like it gives you a false sense of safety in your body, and that is really hard to shift because in the moment, because it is what is known, it does give a short term experience of safety. And I think what you're pointing to is that's why it's so sometimes hard to shift the behavior, because in the moment, you are getting what you're looking for from it, it just doesn't provide you what you're looking for long term, exactly.

Bonnie Roney 11:10

And I think one thing I like to do, too, is acknowledge like, how it has served us, because maybe it has helped us get through some really hard times, like when I struggled with food the most, I felt like there was a lot in my life that was really out of control, and I do think that it helped me get through some of those times. But the fact of the matter is, like, eventually, one day I was like, this isn't serving me anymore, right? Like I could acknowledge that. And I think for the person listening right now, if, like, you're at that place and you're listening to this episode, like, we can be thankful for the fact that, like, whatever our relationship with food, like whatever we've done over the years, we can be thankful that it did serve us, even if we're like what I don't want to be doing this stuff anymore, like there's a role, like it serves you in some capacity. And right now you're listening to this, which means that maybe you're ready to find new coping tools, like ways to expand on your relationship with food and move away from some of these patterns that no longer serve you. So I think being able to offer ourselves a little bit of grace and compassion is so important, because otherwise we can get stuck in the thought pattern of, like, Why have I done this to myself for so long? Like, what's wrong with me? Why haven't I moved away from this? I know that I don't like doing it. Like, why am I doing this? And that's really not productive. It can produce a lot of shame, and we know that shame is not that's not a friend of ours.

Stephanie Mara 12:26

Yeah, I completely agree. And I don't know what I would have done without dieting in high school.

Bonnie Roney 12:33

Yeah, I know. I'm like, now that I have kids, I'm like, I am so I think I'm projecting my worries onto their little lives. I'm like, Are they gonna be okay? Like, I can't imagine them. You know, they're all they're so young. I'm like, Oh my gosh, when they start elementary school, it's gonna be their first day, and then they have to go to middle school, and then they have to go to high school. Like, I'm so worried about them. Like, maybe that's just me, you know what? Like, I'm projecting my experience onto them.

Stephanie Mara 12:57

Sure. And hopefully, with all of the new voices that are out there these days in trying to create more of an anti diet movement and create more safety to inhabit our bodies, that I hope it is different for high schoolers today, although, you know, with social media, I'm sure there's a whole layer of more difficulty. I'm so grateful cell phones weren't a thing yet when I was in high school. But, yeah, I mean, it is scary, of like, how we can support, you know, younger generations and not feeling like dieting or controlling their bodies with food is the way to create safety, like teaching other resources that there are different ways to do this. I'm even curious, you know, some things that you've even talked about on like Instagram and things like that, that, like, there was a time where when you were starting to eat, maybe more intuitively, like you had to use the hunger scale and things like that. And I'd love for you to speak a little bit more to that, because we're talking about, okay, so all this came into your life for a reason. It's wise. We get to cultivate compassion around it. And I find there's this sticky transitional space where it's, of course, you don't trust your body, or don't know how to inhabit your body or listen to your body's feedback, but then how do we get there?

Bonnie Roney 14:15

Yeah, it's such a good question. And I think when you're looking at, like, food freedom. And all of these accounts online, or you look up the hashtag food freedom, it's so tempting to think, Okay, I don't want to diet anymore, and I want to listen to my body, so let me just listen to my body. But usually, more often than not, we can't just magically listen to our body if we've been ignoring it for so long, right? So I'll give you an example if, let's say you like do intermittent fasting. So you have this eating window where you allow, in quotes, allow yourself to eat, and then you have your fasting window where you don't eat. So let's say you get used to not eating from like 6pm to 12pm the next day. You get used to doing that. What happens when you. Feel hunger at 8am what happens? You probably ignore it because you're fast, or you at least try to ignore it because your fasting window isn't until 12pm in this example. And then what happens is, the more we ignore it over time, the harder it is for us to pick up on these subtle like sensations of hunger, for example, so we start to miss them, so we get really out of touch with our body, and then before we know it, like we don't even know what comfortable hunger and fullness feels like, until it's extreme and it's screaming at us, and we are like, hangry. I could eat anything and everything in sight, or we are just so over full, we need to, like, unbutton our pants and we don't feel well. So what I'm saying is we can't go from that place to just saying, okay, magically, listen to your body today, because those cues aren't going to be reliable, like you may not even have hunger cues, and that doesn't mean you don't need to eat. So what I like about the hunger and fullness scale depending on the person right I don't think that it's appropriate for every single person right now, depending on where their relationship with food is. But for many people, I do think it can be a really helpful tool to slowly rebuild trust with your body. So when I was first healing my relationship with food, I really enjoyed using the hunger and fullness scale to help me build on more mindful eating and gain confidence eating what and how much feels good to me. And so for the listener who isn't familiar with the hunger and fullness scale, it's essentially a scale that ranges from a level one to a level 10, where one is like you are starving, you are painfully hungry. It does not feel good. And then you're at the opposite end of feeling like over full, overstuffed, painfully full, unbutton your pants, type full. And in the middle is a five, where you're neutral, you're not really hungry, you're not really full. And then when you look at all the numbers in between, you can see that there are some areas where it's like, hunger might feel a little bit more pleasant, less extreme, and fullness might feel more pleasant and less extreme. And those are kind of the areas that we want to work towards, right? And life isn't perfect, so you will have moments where, like, you do get extremely hungry, or you do get overly full, even when you've been practicing this for years. So we don't want to like we don't want to create a goal that those things should never happen. But generally speaking, the hunger and fullness scale can help you tune into more subtle sensations of hunger and fullness and learn how to, over time, be able to eat when you're pleasantly hungry, stop eating when you're pleasantly full. And so what I like about this is, I like to use it as a tool to slowly, just start checking in with your body. So let's say like you are a calorie counter. You know how many calories you eat a day. You know how many calories are in your breakfast, lunch, dinner and snacks like you know that you don't have to cold turkey, stop counting calories, like 100% in fact, I see that not being helpful for a lot of people in the beginning, because it's too much too soon. But what you can do is you can take something like the hunger and fullness scale, and when you are eating, say, Okay, where do I feel like my hunger is right now? Like, is it pleasant? Is it unpleasant? Is it neutral? And just identify that. And then when you're done eating, where do I feel like my fullness is? Is it pleasant? Is it unpleasant? Is it neutral? And by doing that, you can see if there's any discrepancies in your food rules and the direct experience of your body. So let's say you have this goal, or your calorie count tells you to eat X number of calories in the morning. So you eat that. And when you check in with yourself, you find out you're actually still hungry. You can say, okay, my body, the direct experience of my body, is telling me that I'm still hungry, yet my food rule is telling me that I can't eat anymore because I've already eaten my allowed number of calories. So we can see that difference. And then over time, the goal is that we can put more emphasis on that direct experience of our body, so that it overrides our food rules. So one day, we might be able to say, You know what, my body is still hungry. Yes, I know how many calories I've had in this breakfast. Yes, this used to be like my past goal. Put that in quotes of how much I thought I should eat, but because my body is still hungry, I'm going to eat more. So most people don't just magically forget about, like, calories, numbers, points. You know, I and as dietitians, we know the calories in a lot of foods. Like, I can still look at a ton of foods and be like, I know exactly how many calories are in that but unfortunately, but it no longer dictates my food choices. I allow the direct experience with my body to guide me more, but it really does take time. And I feel like, you know, we don't have time to talk about every single little nuance, but I do feel I need to add it is not appropriate for some people. So for example, an eating disorder recovery, depending on where you're at, intentional eating is going to be much more your friend than relying on something like a hunger and fullness scale like So sticking to a meal plan, sticking to a specific number of calories a day to make sure you're eating enough, but over time, the goal is to get to a place where you can more. So listen to your body. So sometimes those tools are kind of like like a stepping stool to get you to where you want to be.

Stephanie Mara 19:53

Yeah, I'm on completely the same page with you. I practice very similarly in that there are all of. These resources, but it has to be in alignment with where you're at in recovery. And I work with a lot of individuals who have experienced past trauma, and I like to normalize that you are not going to hear your hunger and fullness cues, especially with what you've been talking about of you're not going to be able to hear them, especially if, because one of the reasons you dissociated from your body is because of past trauma. You're just not going to catch them, and that your digestion is kind of shut down, whether it's trauma or because you haven't been listening to your body me, and that also can put the body in a stress response that to be able to put that pressure on yourself, of like, okay, I have to start listening to my hunger and fullness cues. They're just not easily pickable up, able yet. And so I think it's really important just to name like, hey, sometimes what you have to start with is, I think of it as, like, food rhythm, you know, of like, I have to eat rhythmically throughout the day. It has to be consistent. And sometimes when you start putting your body on that very consistent rhythm of it starts to expect that it's going to eat breakfast every day at like 8am or it expects it's going to start getting lunch every day at 12pm I know even for myself, that's when I actually started hearing my hunger and my fullness cues. Because now my body got a rhythm and an expectation that, oh, this is gonna happen.

Bonnie Roney 21:24

Yeah, no, I couldn't agree with that more. I think that structured like loose eating plan is really important, and I think it can be an effective tool for almost anyone who practices it. You know, have having like, okay, telling yourself, I'm gonna eat breakfast, lunch, dinner, I'm gonna have these snacks around these times. It doesn't have to be like, 100% rigid, but for the most part, it really can help you get back in touch with those cues.

Stephanie Mara 21:50

Yeah, absolutely. And you know the other thing, before we even press record, we were talking about just the confusion in this also, of like, when you are starting to learn how to like, receive your body's feedback, maybe create some consistent rhythm to it. I have found that for a lot of people, there is an immense fear of then sometimes saying no to a food. You know, especially, I feel like the anti diet movement has been great and important and so supportive to so many individuals. But I have felt like over the years, it got just as rigid in its own rules as well of like, to prove your recovery, you had to eat all foods without like, hey. But wait a second, I'm allowed to say yes and also allowed to say no. And you put out a great post recently. I think you called it your burger edition of like this is what actually like a healthy relationship with food, is like, where it was like, sometimes you eat the whole burger, sometimes you eat half of it, sometimes you don't get a burger at all. And I'd love you to go a little bit more, because you've put out several posts like that, of the nuance that people are allowed to have in when they are saying yes and no to foods.

Bonnie Roney 23:00

Yeah, I would love to talk about that more. And I think it can be really confusing when you are new to healing your relationship with food. So I just want to let the listener know right now, like, if you're like, Well, I don't know if this is, like, a helpful choice or not. Like, am I saying yes because, like, of diet culture or my disordered eating, or no or whatever? And it's a little bit of a guessing game at first. It really is, but just do the best you can. And so I'm actually working on a post that I'm thinking of as you brought this up. And so I'm going to use that as an example that really aligns with everything we're talking about. And so in the post, it says, ways I made diet culture proud this week. So it's like, it's little click batie to be like, I want people to see this and see what I'm going to talk about, because that's how you have to be, unfortunately, on social media if you want people to look at your stuff. So it says, okay, ways I made diet calls are proud this weekend. Like, it's like, I did one of the longest runs I've done in several years. I had like, this nutrient dense dinner that had, like, quinoa and avocado and all this stuff in it. And then I actually can't remember the third example, but it was something in there. And then the next part of it, it was titled, ways I let diet culture down this week. And then that was, I said, like I missed a workout. I set out my clothes the night before for a morning workout, and I decided to not get up. I wasn't feeling that well, so I just stayed in bed and I didn't work out. And then the other one was like, I had pizza and wings for dinner with friends one night. And so my point with that is that if you are stuck in a place where you are heavily influenced by diet culture, dieting food rules, it is so tempting to look at that and be like, Okay, that was a good and disciplined choice, the running the nutrient dense meal, and then see the latter as something bad, right? Like, oh, you messed up, oh, you weren't disciplined enough. Oh, you should have tried harder. You should have just woken up. You should have ate something healthier. You ruined the day. It's a cheat day. It's so hard. To not see it as anything, but that when you are struggling with food, and you have so much internalized, like diet culture within your belief system around food. But the thing is, when you can take a step back and start to view food differently, so when you break free of like eating just based on diet rules and food rules. And you really work on healing your relationship with food, you can see that some of these choices are made for entirely different reasons. So the backstory behind those things is okay. The furthest run I had in multiple years was a slow build up over time. I have had two babies recently, so gone two back to back pregnancies. Recent postpartum, I've been working on healing or at least managing plantar fasciitis over multiple years. So, like, that was a really, really, really slow build up over time. Like the nutrient dense meal, like, it just made me feel good, and then on the day that I skipped my morning workout, I didn't feel good. It was in my body's best interest to not work out that day, and it wasn't a failure of me having a lack of discipline or willpower, in fact, like it is exactly what my body needed in that moment. And then the pizza and wings that I had for dinner, I had a great time with friends, like we were watching the Super Bowl, and it was like a really tasty dinner, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. So those were the reasons behind those things, and those are choices I made as someone with a healthy relationship with food. Yeah, I had a longer run. Yes, I decided to, like, skip a day of workouts. Yes, I had a nutrient dense meal, and then I had another one that someone would probably define as, like, fun or like bad in quotes. I don't agree with those descriptions, but that's how a lot of people describe them. And so my point is that, like, you can make all of these choices as someone who has a healthy relationship with food, or is working to create a healthy relationship with food, and it's not necessarily a bad thing. I think what social media often gets wrong and like, unfortunately, people don't have the intention spans for a lot of nuance on social media, so they get the takeaway that food freedom and intuitive eating is just like eating all of the quote unquote bad foods, because you can that it's like the opposite of doing anything that's quote unquote healthy or quote unquote good for you. And it's like the absence of, like, eating nutrient dense meals and doing all of these things. So that's one view I get from people. And I've also had people comment on my content before, and like, I'll be drinking diet coke. And they're like, if you were really a food freedom dietitian, you wouldn't drink Diet Coke, like you would drink regular Coke. So there's this big misconception that when you have a positive relationship with food, that it looks one specific way, but it doesn't right. We're all different. We all have different energy needs, different nutrition needs, different health concerns, different medical diagnoses, like different capacities in our lives for different things, and so our eating should always look different. It's just when you can apply all of the tools and practices that we utilize when you know healing our relationship with food that's what helps build body attunement and helps inform your choices that you make around food and exercise and eating day in and day out, and they can absolutely change from time to time.

Stephanie Mara 28:06

Yeah, thanks for going into more description of that. I really agree with a lot of those things, and it's so crazy that people on social media, and I've gotten it on some of my posts as well, will come on and like, shame people for doing what is best for them, because they perceive it means some kind of behavior when they really have no idea. And I find that that's where it's confusing for a lot of people, even that listen to this or that I work with, of what food recovery actually is, and it can look like eating the nutrient dense meals and having a salad and I put out a lot of things of like, I have a love for my morning smoothie, but it like, you know, someone can misinterpret that as like, Oh, are you eating some diet smoothie? And I'm like, No, this like, really dense. There is a lot of stuff in there. And so I find that when it comes to a food recovery path, it is a matter of coming back to yourself, of you are the only one who lives in your body, and that the felt sense is different when saying no to something because it's in alignment with you, and you're like, I feel really good about this decision compared to when it's coming from a place of like scarcity or deprivation or diet, culture, rules or beliefs. You know that's where things get a little sticky, because then, yes, there is research that shows that food scarcity can increase binge eating. But when you're saying no from your body's feedback, it is processed very differently internally.

Bonnie Roney 29:35

Yeah, yeah. I couldn't agree more, like I mentioned earlier. I just want to emphasize that a lot of this is not really clear when you're, like, super new to healing your relationship with food, so there's no pressure to get it right 100% of the time. Like, even I sometimes miss the mark. Like, sometimes I occasionally do get up for the workout when I'm not feeling and then I start working out, I'm like, wow. Like, I probably should have stayed in bed, you know. Like, we're not perfect. No one's ever perfect. But you just do the best you can. And the longer you practice this, I think the easier it becomes to listen to the messages of your body and make those choices that like feel best to you from a truly like healthful place.

Stephanie Mara 30:16

Yeah, I really agree with that. You know, the I've been around family for the past couple months more so than I have been in a while. And we were eating, going out to eat a lot more lately, and I noticed myself kind of go past the experience of fullness many times. And I just want to point out to what you're saying is like, it's not a matter of perfection, like I got to utilize those moments as opportunities to be like, Huh, what was going on there? And sometimes it was like, the meal was really good and really tasty, and I wanted to eat those last couple bites. And, yeah, that sent me over, you know, being adequately satisfied. Other times it was like, oh, you know what? Like, I had had a really stressful day, and I was not in my body, and I was like, a little bit out of my body, and I just completely bypassed the cue. And so every single time it happened, it just got to be an opportunity for me to check in with myself. And I love what you're pointing to is that we have to zoom out a little bit, rather than it's like every single meal has to be the most perfect food, recovered, meal possible, whatever that means that you're going to get to some place where you're never going to engage in maybe some of the food behaviors that you're engaging in now. And sometimes that might happen. But I find when you start to cultivate even though so we started more of that self compassion and curiosity towards yourself, that even when it happens, your experience in it is really different. Like, then it was just like, okay, learn something new, went to bed, digested my food, woke up, had breakfast again. Like, it doesn't have to be like it was in the past, where suddenly you're in this shame spiral, and then you're skipping meals and kind of setting up that restrict binge cycle, exactly.

Bonnie Roney 31:59

I think that's the big difference, is the response and like, how much meaning you put to it. And I also like to say that I do feel we heal our relationship with food throughout our lives. I think it's some like something that's always happening. I think it's tempting to want to say, I want to be at this specific place in one year, or like, something like that. But the reality is, like it just it takes more time and intentionality in the beginning, but it gets way easier over time. So like, when I look at my patterns around food, and like how I felt about food, like all of this stuff over the course of, like, every single year I'm like, things keep getting better and better, right? Like how I felt around food and 2020 then, 2021 2022 2023 2024 2025 2026 like, it's always getting better and better. And I think that that's a beautiful thing. So, you know, it's like a journey that you're kind of always on, but it gets so easily maintainable. And, yeah, it's something that just improves over time.

Stephanie Mara 33:03

Yeah, I'm curious if you see the same thing with body image. I know that's kind of a shift in a direction, but I find that so we're talking about food recovery, and I know for a lot of people, they get to a place of even where we're talking about where you aren't skipping meals anymore, you're eating consistently, you're feeling like you're hearing your hunger and maybe satiation cues more easily. But I find, for a lot of people, the body image struggles continue on even after there's more peace with food.

Bonnie Roney 33:34

I will say I do think that the body image piece is a little bit harder. I don't think that it's quite like at least in my personal experience, and what I've seen with a lot of clients that we've supported, and I think there's so many different reasons for that, and I also think, like depending on what kind of privilege you hold in your body, that that can greatly impact the way you experience the world with body image. So I hold a lot of privilege with my body. You know, I'm a white, thin, straight bodied, able bodied, heterosexual woman, and I do believe that that's made my body image healing journey a lot easier than a lot of other people. So I like to name that, not to say that, you know, someone else can't, like achieve a positive body image. I just think that it's important to look at all of these things and not compare like your story and your journey to someone else. And I think in the world we live in, especially right now, like Finn is in again, it's like very strong it's unavoidable. It is everywhere we have GLP, one ads, left and right. And I'm not saying that there isn't a use for them, or that they can't be helpful for people. What I'm saying is that the message to take something like a GLP one and get thinner is unavoidable. It's on all of the commercials you see, your influencers you follow, and celebrities you follow, like they've partnered with GLP one companies and they're promoting them, and then we have like the thin. Is in culture again. And I never like to name names and call out individual people, but if we look like across the board at celebrities, like, bodies are changing drastically, I feel like we're like, going back to how we were before. And so that's very in. So it's like, you know, it's really hard to escape this messaging, but where I think the power really comes in with body image is when you can be confident saying my body isn't the problem. It's the world around me that is right. And that doesn't mean that you never struggle with body your body image, or you never wish that maybe you were even living in a smaller body, because the reality is, when you live in a smaller body, your life is easier and you are treated better. So like, of course, body image is going to be a really big thing to talk about, and I really want to hold so much space for anyone who is struggling with this or feeling shame with their body, like the shame that I see people carrying with how they feel about their bodies. I mean, it's so devastating. Like it honestly, like when I think about it, it makes me want to cry. It is so sad hearing stories from people. I could probably cry thinking about it right now, but I do believe right when we can say it's not my body, it's the world around me that's the problem, and when you can build body attunement, like, that's the beauty of healing your relationship with food, is even when you have those bad body image days, or like, I wish I was smaller, or something like that, the power really comes in when you choose to listen and do what's best for your body instead, when you choose to honor your hunger, when you choose to eat consistently, when you choose to eat enough, when you choose to take care of yourself that way. Because I won't lie like I still have some bad body image days here and there, right? They still pop up, but what I can tell you is I will not skip meals like I used to. I will not make myself stay hungry, because that is the most miserable experience like for me to be in. And so we really want to, like, get to that place where we prioritize that over falling back and falling victim to, like, these unattainable ideals that are around us. Yeah. So that's what I'd have to say that.

Stephanie Mara 37:00

Yeah, thank you for normalizing that because of the world we live in right now. I don't know a single person who doesn't have a moment that struggles with their body image. I think it's really hard, because of the constant shrinking bodies around us, to not ever have a moment where, you know, I have a lot of conversations with those that I work with, and on social media and things like that, of people being like, should I be doing this? Like, I don't know. And I always find, from a somatic perspective, our bodies love to team up with each other. Like, our bodies are communicating with each other on a body to body level all the time. And so when every body around you is getting smaller. It is sending a message to your body. Of like, Well, is it safe for me to exist here as I am? And like you were pointing to that? Yeah, it's you kind of have to be a little bit of a rebel in today's culture of like, I want to put the care of my body, first, whatever that means, and also that anger. I always, kind of always, the words that come into my brain are like Sacred Feminine rage. I love it talking about these kinds of things. It's like taking that rage and not putting it on yourself, yes, but putting it on the culture that continues to make you believe that that you your body, should be different, and also that it's your fault that it isn't different. And I know that a lot of individuals are pointing out that all of this is great distraction as well of like, if we are focusing on our food and our body, we are diminishing our voice, and we are distracted from maybe some of the things societally that need a lot more attention.

Bonnie Roney 38:44

Yeah, I couldn't agree with that more. I mean, I can't focus on anything when I'm, like, very hungry. So you know, when you're in a malnourished state, which, let's face it, that's what dieting does to a lot of us. You can't focus on a lot of this stuff. You're consumed with food. So I think that's pretty accurate to say that.

Stephanie Mara 39:01

Yeah, I find that there's, I mean, I've been wondering if you experience this as well, and are those that you work with, like there's kind of this abyss that happens when you stop worrying about your food and body image, and I find that can be a really kind of daunting or scary moment in recovery, because it's taken up so much time in your day, and even there's been some maybe routines that you've relied on. Well, it's like, I know I'm going to eat these foods and that's going to create this body image, and then I know I'm going to feel this way, and that could be feeling both more stable and grounded, or even getting comfortable with feeling unstable and ungrounded because of the pattern. It's just what you know, and I'm wondering how you've guided individuals through that point in time, or what you might offer to a listener that's like, I'm maybe getting to a place of, like, worrying about these things less, but I have no idea where to shift my attention now.

Bonnie Roney 39:56

Oh, yeah, that is such a good point to bring up. I really like the concept of visualization, and I learned about this, as far as you know, relating it to like food when I went through the training to become a certified Intuitive Eating counselor. And what I like about visualization is it helps you see, like, what's going to come up for you when something happens in the future. So you might be able to even just ask yourself, like, what emotions might I anticipate when I'm no longer dieting, or when I'm no longer just calorie counting or listening my food rules, or doing all this stuff, like, what's going to come up for me? And being able to identify that, like, are you going to be sad? Are you going to be upset? What is going to come up? And that way, if you can at least identify it, then you can, like, normalize whatever it is that you're most, you know, likely going to experience. So if anything, it just helps you anticipate it and be like, Yeah, this is part of the process that totally makes sense. I'm always a big fan of therapy. Always a big fan of bringing up stuff that comes up right, like, so if you can acknowledge that you have all these emotions coming up, like, talk to your therapist about it, like, talk to your therapist about what to do about all that. Like, how do you want to cope with all of that? So I think that that's something really cool. I also think when we're struggling with food or, you know, just dieting or whatever, we kind of lose sight of, like, other interests that we have in our lives, the dieting and controlling our body size becomes such a predominant like, piece of our lives. So I think when you lose that, it can feel devastating, and you're like, who am I? Like, who am I outside of this? So if you can, like, envision a pie, let's say like you have a pie, and it encompasses everything that makes you who you are as a person, like it defines you, like, maybe you're a wife, a mom, like, I'm a dietitian, all of these things. Maybe you're caring. Maybe you're funny. Maybe there are certain things that you really care about, like animal welfare or whatever. So all that makes you who you are. The thing is, when we're really preoccupied with like, what our world kind of like encompasses, right? Like becoming thin at all costs, all this, we place our entire worth really in our body, and doing that, like dieting, controlling our food to become a certain size. So like that ends up taking up this large percentage of the pie, because so much of our time and energy and effort and money goes into this. So naturally, when you take something away that you have placed so much time, energy, money, your sense of worth and well being, and when you remove that, and you've made all of these other things that make you who you are like you've placed less emphasis into them, it's going to feel like a lot to remove that piece of you. So I think it's really cool and empowering to be able to identify, like, what are the other parts that make you who you are as a person, and how can you give these other parts of you more weight? Because then, like, the loss of your dieting identity may not feel so great.

Stephanie Mara 42:56

I love that. You know, it makes me think of not even just like the dieting identity, but also the identity of even like a thin person, or, you know, however you describe your body, that it sometimes does feel like, for a lot of individuals, an identity that you took on at some point in time, and maybe like, feel like you're trying to fight to get back to, so to speak, if your body has changed. And it also was maybe meant to change that to say, Hey, I'm actually going to remove this slice from my identity, and what do I want to bring into that space? You know, I find that's where, you know, learning about your morals and your values and what you stand for. And you know, even like what lights you up in the world, like your hobbies and things that make you feel more emotionally regulated and attuned and satiated, that it's like, oh, this doesn't have to be a slice that exists anymore, because you fill up your pie, just to go with the analogy with different ingredients.

Bonnie Roney 43:58

Yeah, I could not agree more. I definitely used to be known as, like, the healthy and fit person. Like that was me. That is how people described me. And it was kind of weird letting that go at first, but now I'm obviously way happier. But you know, it's like, it cost me so much, like I spent my life revolved around my exercise routine, whereas now it's like, I want my exercise routine to fit into my life. I don't want my life, you know, like, fit into my exercise routine like that is the life I was living.

Stephanie Mara 44:32

Yeah, and I find that's where, just for a second, coming back to the body image piece is I feel like people can again, it will still be maybe a little bit of a struggle at times, but can kind of find some peace within themselves. Is what I always think of it as, like backing into it, where it's like, what are the routines and the meals and the movements and everything that like, the sleep quality that like, helps. Helps me feel the most vibrant and stable and alive in my body, and then however my body expresses itself at that point, it's kind of maybe where my body wants to be, yeah, and like you said before, for a lot of individuals that may then end up being in a body shape and size that this society and culture will continue to shame and to continue to have a negative perspective around and so even sometimes, when you back into it to be like, Oh, this is where my body wants to be. Sometimes there can be great disappointment at that point that it's a body expression that the world has created some meaning around.

Bonnie Roney 45:41

Yeah, I think that's so important to name, and I also want to name that I never blame anyone for what they decide to do with their body. For some people, they feel safer and will always feel safer and best pursuing something like intentional weight loss. And you know, who am I to judge someone and the way they show up in the world and like behaviors that make them feel safest. But I do think it can be, yeah, it can be really sad when, when that happens to you, and when you kind of, also maybe you decide, like, you don't want to go back to dieting or doing what you've done in the past. And that can be a really hard place to sit in, where you're like, Man, this stinks. Um, you know, I'm don't feel good in my body, I but I'm not going to go back to what I was doing before. Like, I just have to kind of sit in this and I think something that's really important to do is to follow professionals in this space who represent more diverse bodies. Unfortunately, it does seem that, like, you know, straight size professionals and dietitians tend to dominate this space, and I think that's partly due to anti fat bias and weight stigma that you know makes people more likely to follow like accounts like mine and professionals who live in straight sized bodies like myself. And so I think it's important to be really intentional about diversifying your feed and following other professionals who are saying the same exact thing that we are, but live in more diverse bodies and maybe even represent like your body yourself. Because what I can tell you is, even though, like, the world is terrible and it can be really like, you know, body image struggles can feel really hard and really pervasive, there are professionals out there who represent diverse bodies, who are enjoying food, who have made peace with their body, who respect their body, and are doing the things that like we are talking about right now.

Stephanie Mara 47:32

That is such great advice. You know, I find that when we are only like viewing one body, shape and size, it kind of perpetuates the body image struggles. Because then you go and you look in the mirror and you're like, wait a second, all of the bodies that I keep showing my body, my body doesn't look like that. Yeah. And to normalize that, there are an array of body shapes and sizes in the world. We have to expose ourselves to all of them so that when you look in the mirror, you're like, Oh, my body's just another body in the sea of bodies. That's it.

Bonnie Roney 48:04

And it actually really helped my own body image when I diversified my feed. So I remember when I first started doing this, it was almost surprising to scroll and see like images of like, such diverse bodies, because I wasn't used to it like, I hate to admit it, but that's how my feed was. But now it's so normal to me that I don't even think twice about it, and as a result of that, like I am confident that it has helped the way I feel about myself being able to see a variety of bodies being represented.

Stephanie Mara 48:35

Yeah, I absolutely, completely agree with that. You know, as we move towards wrapping up here, I usually like to offer listeners like a little baby step, and we have explored so many things today, but I find you know, when individuals have just an example of what they could be playing with in their own life, it gives some kind of guidance or direction. And I'm curious, what's a baby step? It could have to do with food recovery. It could have to do with body image recovery that you're often offering people on this food recovery adventure.

Bonnie Roney 49:07

Yeah, the first thing that's coming to mind for me, that I think is a good baby step to begin with, is to just explore the upsides and downsides, to change upsides and downsides of you healing your relationship with food, because I think so often when like you first learn about this, like you first listen to this podcast, you first discover that, like there's another way to approach eating and how you feel about your body, like you can create a healthy relationship with food. You want to jump into action steps being like, let me get the hunger and fullness scale and let me do all these things. And like, we get, like, we just want a list of things that check mark off. But what I think is really powerful, because I think sometimes, like, we want to do these things, but maybe we're not actually, like, ready for that step yet, is to explore, like, where you are at right now. What are the upsides and downsides to change so that you really have, like, this full picture of like, what it is that you're doing so that might look like exploring your history with dieting or following food rules and seeing like, how has it served you throughout your life? Did it help you get through hard times? Did it give you this false sense of control? But also, how's it negatively impacted you? Like, if you lost weight, okay, for how long? How long did it come off for? Like, are there any trends in your history with dieting and following food rules? Like, have you a cycle throughout your whole entire life? If you were to make changes, what does that mean for you? Like, what kind of emotions can you anticipate when you aren't dieting and when you don't have your food rules that you're following all the time? But also, like, what are the benefits that you can get from this? A lot of people will say, freed up mental space, like, a greater ability to be present, like the ability to just enjoy food. And when you think about having a more positive relationship with food, I think it's so easy to minimize how much it means. And so I want to, like reinforce to everyone how powerful it is to heal your relationship with food. We eat multiple times a day. We eat for every day of our lives, hopefully. I sure hope so. I sure hope that's what people are doing. And so if you experience food related guilt, stress, anxiety, negative behaviors with food like that compounds over time, that means it's bleeding into your everyday life. Tomorrow is Valentine's Day, like my husband and I are gonna go out to dinner. I don't know where, because I don't know where, I don't know what we're gonna get. Like, I don't know anything about it, and that's okay. But you know, if I were struggling with food like that would be a guilt inducing, anxiety provoking experience, right? All of our holidays, like we have food, when we celebrate, when we grieve, like, a lot of these things involve food. So when you create a more positive relationship with food, like it impacts so many moments of your everyday life and like, that's huge. So doing that simple practice, exploring the upsides and downsides to change, I think, can be a really powerful step to give you, like, a big picture grounding moment of like, okay, this is what I need to do, and this is why.

Stephanie Mara 51:56

I love all of that. And just coming back for a second of just the journaling exercise. I've really appreciated that you're like before you even move into action. Let's cultivate awareness, let's reflect, let's embody, let's get connected. I completely agree with that, and it's actually a journaling exercise that even I offer in my three month Life program of like starting to write out, what did this do for you? Because it starts to diminish that experience of shame and this perception that this is the problem rather than it. I always like to say it was the answer, like it was the answer to something else. And when we stop viewing it as the problem, we get to start to shift focus towards, well, what else like? What else is needing my attention? So I love that you offered that and added onto it of and talk about what it's costing you. How is it actually diminishing the quality of your life? And what would start to maybe, I don't know, enhance that quality that could have to do with your food behaviors, but as we've been exploring, could be something else as well. So I love everything that you named today. I'm curious how listeners can keep in touch with you and the work that you're doing.

Bonnie Roney 53:12

Definitely. Well, thank you so much for having me, Stephanie, and you can find me on Instagram. I'm there almost every day, diet.culture.rebel I also have a podcast called diet culture rebel podcast, and then my website, dietculturerebel.com.

Stephanie Mara 53:27

I will put all of those links in the show notes. Absolutely recommend following you. You put out such great content. Just thank you so much again for being here.

Bonnie Roney 53:27

Yeah. Thank you so much. Stephanie.

Stephanie Mara 53:27

Absolutely well to everyone listening, please email me your insights at support@stephaniemara.com and I hope you all have a satiating and safety producing rest of the day. Bye!

Keep in touch with Bonnie:

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/diet.culture.rebel/
Website: https://dietculturerebel.com/