Sail Through Food Cravings with Self-Hypnosis Resources
Welcome to the Satiated Podcast, where we explore physical and emotional hunger, satiation and healing your relationship with your food and body. I'm your host, Stephanie Mara Fox, your Somatic Nutritional Counselor.
One of the crucial pieces of recovering from trauma-based food coping mechanisms can be reminding yourself that you have a choice. Sometimes, binging and restricting can perpetuate the trauma response where it doesn't feel like you have a choice. You have to binge or you have to restrict. You might even hear a loud internal voice that says you must do this or else something bad is going to happen. Some food behaviors can feel like home because living in a sympathetic nervous system response is all you've ever known. If you were created in your mother's womb in a sympathetic response, grew up in an environment that kept your body in fight or flight state, and experienced situations that continued to make you feel unsafe, all your body has ever known is living in a sympathetic state. When living in the sympathetic nervous system, you're in a survival response. Choices feel limited and scarce. You can eat or not eat. You can run away or hide. You can fight or flee. I've recommended on previous podcast episodes how important it is to write out your other options. Remembering what your other choices are is going to feel difficult to remember in the moment as your memory is affected in a sympathetic state.
Today, I chat about what your other choices could be to regulate with Caroline Mcnally. Caroline is a certified hypnotherapist and longevity coach who helps women over 40 escape the trap of yo-yo dieting and build a healthier, more balanced relationship with food, without sacrificing the joy of eating. With a background in biomedical science and with a deep love of food, Caroline blends science with subconscious reprogramming tools like hypnotherapy to support lasting health, strength, and self-trust. Her work is all about helping women nourish their bodies and minds while enjoying every bite of life. We chat about hypnotherapy resources you can use on yourself to navigate food urges and impulses, utilizing visualization for navigating your relationship with food, the importance of laughter on this healing journey and reminding yourself that you have a choice.
There are 6 more days to sign up for the Somatic Eating® Program! In three months together, you will walk away with an abundance of various somatic practices to navigate your food urges and impulses with connection, embodiment, and experience of choice. Go to somaticeating.com or click on the link in the show notes. Now, welcome Caroline!
I am so excited to have you on the podcast, and really excited to get to know more about you and your approach to relationship with food. And as listeners know, I always like to get started in hearing about your history, because it's so interesting just to kind of hear how people ebb and flow in their relationship with food and how they get into the work that we're doing. And I feel like for so many people, if you get into the field of supporting others in their interactions and their food relationships, there's usually a background that the person has themselves in navigating that. So I'm curious how you got to the work that you're doing today.
Caroline Mcnally 03:54
Yes, well, thank you very much for inviting me onto your podcast, because I love the work that you do as well so I feel honored. So my background is, when I was younger, I had, I always felt overweight, and, you know, I always felt very self conscious, and I was a very self conscious teenager as well, and just with a lot of anxiety. And I obviously, like many of us went down the road that diet culture takes you down of a constant binge, restrict kind of cycle. And I never got to a weight that I wanted because the restriction led to binging and just yo yoing back and forth all the time. I actually remember on my honeymoon, I tried to restrict myself so much for a spell on a low carb diet that then when I finally got to eat something, when we went on our honeymoon, I just gained weight so fast. It was just unbelievable how much that can you can do that to your body. I really, for most of my life, I was in that kind of binge restrict cycle. I'm a biomedical scientist, so I currently do that just now. However, in 2004 I've always found hypnotherapy absolutely fascinating, and my plan was at that time to do the course. At the same time, I already had my master's degree in biomedical science, and while I was working, I did my postgraduate diploma in hypnotherapy and it just was fascinated. Obviously, you have to do the practice work on each other and it kind of healed my anxiety at the time and everything. So I thought this is something I want to get into. And then, as life happens, I ended up having kids, and, you know, stayed in my job, which I'm currently still in. But what brought me back recently to hypnotherapy is I had an extremely tough year, 2023/24 my mum had cancer. She passed away, and I could easily see myself going down one of two paths, but, you know, I've got kids, so I had to find a way to keep being strong, and I was trying to help my mom and everything her journey as well. So I got back into hypnotherapy and actually decided to retrain just as a refresher, and did an amazing course online with Paul McKenna and Steve Crabb and Tina Taylor. And it just, it really helped me through the whole process and everything. Then, you know, I just wanted to help people, so I thought I'm going to, this time, I'm going to do something with with my hypnotherapy, because of all my anxiety and struggles with weight throughout my life, and I finally got to a place where I can fully enjoy food, and it just feels so free compared to where I was before. And just I've rewired my brain differently, and I wanted to share that with people at the same time. I know it can help people with anxiety and everything like that as well. So that's really what brought me here, and I'm just absolutely passionate about it. And I can just speak about hypnotherapy all day. I love it.
Stephanie Mara 07:11
Yeah, I can feel your passion for it. I'm so sorry to hear about your mom, and it sounds like hypnotherapy was something that really supported you through that time.
Caroline Mcnally 07:21
100% helped me with the grieving process.
Stephanie Mara 07:25
Yeah, I'm curious about what about the process of hypnotherapy and the tools that you learned there kind of helped you through the anxiety and maybe the food struggles. Like, what was it about hypnotherapy that you felt like was the different approach that you weren't receiving elsewhere.
Caroline Mcnally 07:43
There was quite a few different techniques that really helped me. There's one really powerful technique, and this is something that people can do themselves. They might have already heard of it. It's probably something you've spoken about I'm gonna, I'm going to guess, called the havening technique, and it's at the same time as doing the havening. So if nobody's heard of it, you know, it's the touch points all down your arms and everything. But you can guide somebody through gentle hypnosis while doing it, and it can just get those feelings of overwhelm, just slowly calm down. So as you speak about every disordered behavior has a positive intention. So when you start to realize that, you do realize that your conscious and subconscious mind is constantly trying to protect you in a positive way, and it's just such a beautiful thing, once you realize that, so you can start to recognize these feelings and think, what is my body trying to do for me right now, and how can I address that and stop seeing everything's a failure and see things more as data that you can gather to just slowly become aware of your body and your behaviors. Besides that, there's something called future pacing that anyone who's ever had hypnotherapy will know what that is. And if you have a goal of how you want to feel, it's very focused on what is it you want, instead of focusing on what do you not want. I think a lot of people have the tendency to constantly focus on what they don't want, what they don't like, that they're doing, but if you start to shift your brain into what would you like to feel like, what is your goal? If you could imagine a year going perfectly, how would that year look and then future pacing into what are the steps you would be taking two months from now, three months from now? And if you do map out a goal in your mind, your brain starts to seek out how it can make that happen for you and just naturally start to follow in a more positive direction. Another thing is, I think, a lot of the time, we don't realize that the pictures that we have in our brain and the words we say to ourselves mentally just have such a huge impact on how we respond physically. And once you start to realize that, and you almost can't believe it's so powerful, but if you change the pictures in your head, the words that are the audio that's constantly going through your mind, then that can have a very powerful effect as well.
Stephanie Mara 10:18
Yeah, I love all of those. The first piece around just the havening, just for those who are listening to this, basically what you did was you kind of crossed your arms over your body and kind of like went down your arms just with your hands. And you know what I hear in that just from a somatic lens, is like, sometimes we need containment. You know, when life feels so overwhelming that to feel kind of some proprioceptive input of like touch in ourselves, of like I exist here in time when your brain is either functioning from the past memories or future worry is that to land the body in the here and now can be so so, so helpful. So I appreciate that suggestion. And then the next piece of just, you know, I noticed a huge shift when I started practicing many, many, many years ago, of like, stop focusing on worrying if I was going to binge again, and starting to focus on, what is it that I want to feel in my body, and what are the behaviors that are going to support me in feeling that way? And it's cool to hear you talk about how our brain kind of rallies around that and and, you know, makes me think of how you know our brain is just like, you know, in mindfulness meditation, they talk about it as like the monkey mind. Your brain is never going to stop trying to fill in the gaps. It's never going to stop trying to create stories like it's never going to stop doing exactly what it's meant to do. And so sometimes we have to actually give it a focus of like, here, this is what we're working towards. Can we get on the same team here and just focus on this and that, like everything within you can start to move towards that direction. And I appreciate that reminder that sometimes we have to shift the focus from the fear of what you don't want towards what you do. You know, so often there's a focus on a food recovery journey of all that you don't want. You don't want to feel bloated anymore, you don't want to engage in your food behaviors. You don't want to continue to be in the same cycles that you've been in. But then what do you want? And sometimes that can feel really scary to also start shifting into that space of the what do I want. I'm curious if you've seen that when you've started maybe working with people towards shifting their attention, towards how they do want to feel, or what they do want for themselves.
Caroline Mcnally 12:42
Absolutely, you definitely, immediately see some people pause. A lot of the time, it's, I don't want to eat so much sugar. And you say, and what do you want? And they pause, not really knowing, well, I don't want to eat sugar, but what is it you want? And then slowly, once it starts coming out, well, I want, I want energy. I want to live my life fully, and I want to be healthy, and, you know, I want to have the energy to maybe play with my kids, or I have a job I need to be focused in and I just don't want that part to happen anymore. And once you start realizing what you want, and you can really visualize what that future looks like that's when I can really help people. And then in hypnotherapy, they always talk about the conscious mind like the peak of an iceberg, and the subconscious just being all these automatic habits that we've got underlying that we don't realize are behind a lot of our programming. And the great thing about that is they've been put there because something's happened. And you know, for example, if at some point something really stressful has happened and you have been binge eating at that time, it probably brought you comfort, and that's good, because you found peace and comfort in that moment. The problem is then that's kind of locked into your subconscious as the default, because you haven't given any other tools to go to so you feel that again, and your your mind wants to protect you and says, we know what to do here. We'll do this again, because that's that helped us before, and I think that is the problem as well. When people start restriction, they haven't given themselves any other tools. They've just thought, I can't have that. There's nothing to fall back on when things go wrong. So another thing that we would do is it's called a new behavior generator, if you can ask yourself in that moment, what is my body seeking? And I know this is very similar to things that you would talk through as well, but if I could ask my body right now, in this moment when I want to binge, what am I actually seeking? And then try and think of a few different ways you could maybe create that that isn't with food. And that's not to say, you know that you should not enjoy food, because my whole thing is the love of food, and I love chocolate as much as the next person and you know that brings me joy as well. At the same time, once you finally get in tune with your body, I also know I can absolutely enjoy that, but I can equally enjoy nourishing food and crave it just the same, once you start to really get in tune with your thought patterns and think of food as something exciting and nourishing, rather than something you have to be worried about when should I eat? What should I eat? When I think that's quite freeing as well. Definitely.
Stephanie Mara 15:45
Yeah, it's such a balance, isn't it?
Caroline Mcnally 15:47
Yes.
Stephanie Mara 15:48
I really hear in what you're describing is that we never want to take, and I say this too, we never want to take food off of your list of options.
Caroline Mcnally 15:56
Absolutely.
Stephanie Mara 15:57
Like, you are allowed to enjoy food. You're allowed to also self soothe with food. There's nothing morally wrong with it. It gets to be a choice. You know, there's nothing wrong with eating chocolate and that what I have found, both on my own journey and like those that I've worked with, is that the kind of clash that starts to occur is when food becomes the only option. You know, when it's like, wow, I now I'm feeling so disconnected from myself, where I find that sometimes the original intent of reaching for food was like you're also pointing to was to kind of find protection, was to find safety, was to provide solace or connection, and that it was really effective. And that's why these associations like you were talking about, started to be created was it was like, oh, that worked. I felt better. And so, you know, all of these connections start to be associated in your body, of like, okay, we're in the same situation. We feel overwhelmed, we feel stressed out. We feel ignored. Whatever it is. Okay, I've got this, let's go do that food behavior that we know how to do, and that over time, it can lead to further and further disconnection. And ultimately, being alive in a body and disconnected from it can feel so isolating and sad and frustrating and alone and so, you know, I find that it's like, yes, this worked for a period of time. It's just not working anymore, because now you're feeling so disconnected from yourself, and you want to feel like you were saying, like, I want more energy. I want to feel alive. I want to feel embodied. I want to feel like a purpose and and that means having to come back into connection with the body.
Caroline Mcnally 17:45
Yes, yes, that's exactly it. Because when they all say that, the subconscious mind isn't logical, but it's purposeful. So it's trying to give you something.
Stephanie Mara 17:56
I love that.
Caroline Mcnally 17:56
But it might not serve you in the best way. So when you start to notice that and think, okay, this behavior acknowledged, you know that did serve me well at some point, but we need to adjust that and retrain our brains to do something that serves our health more, just so we can have all the things that we want to do and have the energy to do that and not have guilt about eating, because I always think to myself, you know, after all, we were given taste buds for a reason. Food's meant to be delicious and enjoyed.
Stephanie Mara 18:30
Absolutely!
Caroline Mcnally 18:31
Yeah. So we just need to get back to that and think, no, there should be no guilt around this and and just stop those patterns from bringing us down into the same cycles all the time. But I do think diet culture has a lot to do with that. And there's so many different diets and and restrictions out there, and people get so confused, you know, trying to stick so hard and rigidly to something, and then feeling guilty if they can't, and it takes up so much mental space I found, and I can't deny that this did teach me a lot about the health benefits of food, but I went to a personal trainer at one point, and he was very into macros and everything like that, but there was a line he said to me that sticks in my head. And he said, I see food like numbers. And, you know, at that point, I just thought, oh, my goodness, that's not how I want to see food at all. I see food as nourishment. And our bodies are, you know, like a miracle. We respond to what we put in and how we feel and what we have with the nourishment we put into our bodies. Then I thought, okay, this is not how I want. This is not the road I want to go down.
Stephanie Mara 19:48
Yeah, thanks for bringing that in, because it is so important that sometimes when like what we're pointing to, when there's so much overwhelm around food, it's like that kind of like linear, rational, logical part of our mind wants to take over and is like, okay, food is just calories. I can just count this, I can just macro count this, and like, then I won't have to worry about food anymore. But food is multi layered. I mean, it is tradition and it is nourishment and it is pleasure, and it is connection and it is community, and it is lineage. And, like, there's so much that is wrapped up in food that, sure we could sometimes see it especially, like, I know on a really busy day, I'm like, I just need to get the nutrition in. Like, I just know that, like, it doesn't matter about having the most pleasurable experience with it today, but I know I just need to get the nutrition in. And so sometimes it can be like that. But you know, we need to bring in, like, all the many layers. And I'm wondering in, like, your work with hypnosis, how you've kind of explored, like, bringing in some of the more layers of not just seeing food as like this trainer was doing is just like a number that they needed to take in.
Caroline Mcnally 21:06
I think that's what really made me realize it's the whole package surrounding everything as well, because there is stress related to food and restriction and binging and everything as well, which and then there's sleep, and that all affects how we move right now. I am also training to be a longevity coach, and I find this really exciting with the hypnotherapy, because my passion is surrounding food and the behaviors and getting people out of those cycles. But all of those four pillars kind of link in, and it's something that you you don't necessarily get if you're trying to go on a diet, or somebody gives you a fitness plan and, and I'm absolutely all about, you know, movement and you know, it makes you feel better mentally and physically, but also you need to find something sustainable that you enjoy. So you find all parts of your life you're starting to feel more enjoyment from and therefore you get that dopamine that you would get from food otherwise. So if you can start really taking care of yourself with sleep and movement, the food you eat and your stress levels come down, I feel like it gives you the whole package, which I think is just lovely. I always think to myself, if we think of how we would take care of our children or our elderly parents or maybe our pets or somebody that we really love, our partners or any buddy or any pet, to anything you want to take care of them so much you would want to make sure that they're eating enough nourishment, but they have enough enjoyment and you know, are they getting enough sleep and everything. You just nourish them so much. And sometimes I just think we need to remember that we can be that way for ourselves as well. We can take care of ourselves in that way and really have that love and respect for ourselves, which I think is important as well.
Stephanie Mara 23:08
Yeah, I use that same analogy all the time. I'm actually looking after my in laws' dog right now, along with my own dog. And you know, I noticed the same thing of like, okay, I will make sure that they both have their food and they're good and they're set up before I will even focus on okay, I need to make myself lunch now. And if I just use that one example of like, how often we put everyone else's needs above our own, and if we thought of our body as a pet that we were like, hey, I need to take care of this first before I show up and take care of anyone else like you were just pointing to. There are so many different layers that if focusing on the food piece feels like too much right now, shift your attention to something else, because in any direction, you could make baby steps forward of okay, if it's going to sleep an hour earlier, so that you start getting more adequate, you know, amounts of sleep and good rest, then you're feeling maybe less stress in the day that then it's easier to find yourself wanting to, you know, eat in a way that nourishes it, you know. So it's like you could choose any one inlet that would feel most resonant to you. And sometimes I find especially, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, like when we're struggling with food, there's so much focused on but I have to start with the food piece. Like the food piece has to be the thing that I like fix, quote, unquote, and we talk a lot about here, about not seeing it as the problem to be fixed, but like, it's a problem to be fixed that we kind of miss out on, well, could there actually be another area of my life where there's a little bit more wiggle room to play with, because food right now maybe isn't changing, and isn't ready to change.
Caroline Mcnally 25:03
Absolutely. Let's say you just picked I'm gonna really focus on, you know, stress levels this month, and found ways to just calm your nervous system down, and got into certain routines, rituals to calm yourself down, some small things that I absolutely love to do is just before I'm walking into work, I I'm still walking into work, you know, I'm still getting on with my day, but I take a moment to listen to the birds and just the breeze and everything. And honestly, that moment alone, it just makes me just sink down and calm right down so that I think, okay, I'm ready. I'm happy for this day. I feel grateful. You know, I think all this thinking of gratitude and everything as you walk into the day, I'm lucky to, you know, have this life, and I can hear the birds and just I feel it's grounding. I don't speak about grounding too much, obviously, you know, you hear that a lot in yoga and everything like that, but if there's a word there to describe it, I think that's probably it. And sometimes I even challenge myself, because you do get quite a lot of lovely bird noises in Scotland, but there's sometimes, because it's a hospital I work in, and you might struggle to tune in, but that's almost like a challenge. I think I can't hear them yet, and then I hear them, and it just automatically calm down. So just little things you can do throughout the day to help your stress levels will naturally have a knock, knock on effect to how you're going to eat that day. Or because your stress does contribute to how you eat, and so does your sleep, and that all you know, movement, it's all just one big, holistic approach that you can just have work on one tiny thing, one tiny thing a week, and then it's not so overwhelming as well. I think is probably the best way for sustainable healthy habits to start to form.
Stephanie Mara 27:00
Yeah. And now you've been recently putting out a lot of great posts on kind of how to play with the inner dialogue around food. And I'd love for you to share some of the little tidbits that you've been sharing around like, yeah, how to talk with that voice, how to play with that voice.
Caroline Mcnally 27:18
Yes. So one of the really big things that we can do is how we feel physically and what we're thinking has such, you know, a link either way our thoughts can affect us physically, the way we are physically impacts our thoughts. So you know, if you were feeling very down, and your body would obviously be slumping and not feeling so good, even if you just change how you are and kind of make yourself in a more positive stance. I think it's called power posing, that can actually have a impact on your brain as well. To start to think, okay, this is good, but during a for snacking, or if you're about to start binge eating and your mind is going through, you know, rapidly if you can catch yourself in that moment and your mind's thinking, no, I have to, have to have it. Have to have it. One of the funnier things that you can do is give your thoughts a funny voice. You know, think of a cartoon character or a squeaky voice, or even visualize a funny picture to it saying that, and then it takes the power away in that moment. So that's one of the techniques that you can do. Another option would be during that pause, is to just future pace yourself and think to yourself, okay, how will I feel if I have to look back on this moment, half an hour from now, or 10 minutes from now, if I could visualize everything going perfectly, what would that look like, and how would I feel? How would I have handled that situation? And if I didn't pause and it went to the what I usually would do, how would that look for me? And even that alone can really start to give you powerful tools and resilience. And sometimes, you know, you will look in 10 minutes from now and say, well, I absolutely want that piece of chocolate cake, and in that moment, it will make me feel really good because it's delicious, but you probably will decide not to binge eat, because you would realize I can have that and be happy and still feel okay at the end, or you might decide I'm going to have that plus something with nourishment and at the side as well, so I can feel it. I've got both pleasure from the thing I was really craving, plus nourishment, because I like to take care of my body. So your mind might tell you that, but no matter what it does, it's not right, it's not wrong, it's just data to start to build on until you can really help yourself in those moments.
Stephanie Mara 29:50
Yeah, I love the example of just like giving it a funny voice, or like turning it into a movie character, like, I kind of think of like Lucy from your Good Man Charlie Brown, or like, Veruca Salt from, like, you know, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. And I'm just like, okay, if I had this inner voice, it's like, but I want it now. And I'm like, it just takes on a very different quality, where I'm like, okay, how would I want to show up for a person that is being really demanding with me? Is, like, obviously, like, having a situation that, like, I want to show up for them in their situation, but just because they're telling me they want something doesn't mean that, like in real life, that I would just give someone something just because they told me that they wanted it now. And so, like, I feel like it one, it brings in humor, which is like, I know it's not talked about enough, but because you know, when you're stuck in, like binging or the binge restrict cycle, it can feel so intense in your body. And like to bring in humor doesn't maybe feel like the initial thing to go to, but it can be so supportive to bring in humor on the journey, so that it's like, yeah, how can I actually play with this voice and interact with this dialogue that brings a little bit of like levity into my own body?
Caroline Mcnally 31:08
Absolutely, there's other ones that I think are a bit more light hearted, like that as well. You can imagine your food speaking to you, if you're about to have it and say, say no, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna make you feel like this. And if you, if you do that, stop and just imagine it kind of talking to you, or something like that. Or there's something that you can do where they say, you know, make it go black and white and smaller and just shrink that in in your mind, put up, almost like a picture in your mind, of some another beautiful, nourishing choice, and make the colors bright and bold and and have this kind of small and grainy down in the corner, like a small almost like, if you're doing, you know, Whatsapp, there's a wee face down in the corner, and then there's the bigger screen. So just like a picture down in the corner of that, but then big, beautiful, bold colors of something that you think, no, I could have that, and that would be absolutely delicious. And you can trick your mind with those little things as well. But yeah, I do particularly like putting the funny voice to it, and that that is an actual technique as well, just to take the power away. And as you say, you know laughter is the best medicine. So anything you can bring a bit of joy and laughter too, is always going to be helpful in my book, I often like to add funny little things into therapy, because I think it is really helpful. A helpful tool, definitely.
Stephanie Mara 32:33
Yeah, and I like the description of what you just described, of you know, what we were talking about earlier was that sometimes this association gets created. But I don't think I've ever kind of thought about what imagery wise, that that takes on where, you know, if I like, think about foods that have been connected to, like, joy for me, yeah, internally, it is light, vibrant and shiny, and there's bright colors and like, it's a very like, explosive experience in my body, whereas if I imagined putting that same food into, like, black and white and gray colors in my mind's eye, like, it doesn't take on the same kind of quality in my body, my body doesn't have the same response to it. So that feels really interesting to play with, of like, okay, if I could, you know, take the color out of this and just see this food for what it is in kind of like gray colors. And then even think, well, how I want to feel is I want to feel connected and I want to feel safe, and I want to feel vibrant and energetic, and actually calling my friend would do that. Could you imagine your phone in technicolors, something like that.
Caroline Mcnally 33:49
Anything you would rather do absolutely if people, some people like going for a walk instead, because that gives them the lovely feeling. If you can imagine everything just being absolutely beautiful, or, like you say, connecting with somebody, and imagine yourself just really laughing out loud and getting that beautiful feeling that laughter takes you on when you're laughing with a friend. You know, if you can imagine all of that instead in this picture, and then that wee black and white picture just doesn't seem so appealing. So things like that just to pause are really helpful, and also something that people can do, it might seem like a strange question that you can ask yourself sometimes before you go for any habit that you don't want to happen is, and how do you do that? Then at first somebody thinks, well, I just go and I eat that. But how? Because before you do any action, there's a picture in your head you're making a very quick series of decisions that you don't even know you're making, thinking, I'm going to go to the cupboard, and I can imagine what that's going to be like. And you know, you have to go through that series of pictures in your head to finally go and get that. So if you can change the picture in your head before you even get to that point, as soon as you catch yourself, and if you repeat that, eventually that image will come up before and stop you in your tracks, at the very least. But with more practice, you'll eventually automatically start going for that other thing that you might be your goal, that you wish you were doing instead, for any, any unhelpful habit that's not serving your best needs, you know, for your healthiest self. So that's something as well. Is just to remember that there's always, there's always a picture before the actual action, or sometimes audio as well in your mind, even though you don't realize it.
Stephanie Mara 35:44
Yeah, thanks for bringing that in. Like, our brain works so fast in how quickly, like, I know so many people talk about, like, how can I even pause when I'm about to binge like, I feel like I'm already on the train, it's already going into the kitchen. I feel like a wolf that is just gonna devour everything. So there were already so many things that were happening before you even get to that point in time. And it makes me think of and I've told this story like a million times, so I won't go into all the nitty gritty details, is the first moment this was like, almost 15 years ago at this point, is the first moment that I practiced not binging in the evenings. I had just met my now husband, and we were dating, and I was very open with him about what I was going through with food, and we were coming back from a date, and I was like, I feel a lot of emotions. I feel like I'm just gonna go binge right now. And he was like, what if you just brush your teeth and went to bed? And I was like, oh yeah, I have options. Like I feel until someone gave me the remembrance that I had a choice. I like, had forgotten that I had a choice. And I, like, walked into my apartment, I was living by myself, and I still even went to the kitchen, and I like, took out, like, this, you know, jar of nut butter. And I was like, holding it, and I was like, okay, I could eat a lot of this nut butter right now, probably even finish off the jar if I really wanted to, or I could do exactly what he just said and I could walk into the bathroom and I could brush my teeth, and I could go to bed, and I put the jar back into the cabinet, and I went and I did that, and I remember waking up in the morning being like, how did I do that? Like it felt so odd and so strange that I didn't do the thing that I normally had been doing for so many nights, and that it is kind of remembering that you have a choice in what your other choices are, and so that's what I hear you describing, is that not just remind yourself that you have a choice, but I love the nuance that you're also bringing into it, of make those other choices, like in your body, look and feel shinier and more vibrant and more vivid so it also feels like that is where you would want to go to as well, more than maybe the food.
Caroline Mcnally 38:18
Yes, definitely, and that that is where the future pacing comes in is your brain often for emotions, it can't distinguish between what is real and what you're imagining, and that's why it can be so powerful. So you know, if you if you think of something sad, it's it makes you feel really sad. If you think of something happy, it makes you feel happy. But the beauty of that is, if you can constantly put these really positive images in your brain all the time and really practice that, you can do this for yourself as well. If you decide your goal and you want to paint that picture, I think I had, I mean, it was quite early on. I tried to do a real description of this in the bottom, but you could really map out for yourself and record your own voice, which can be powerful for people to hear it in their own voice internally to say, imagine yourself doing this and doing that and everything you know. You describe it in your own words that can be lovely for your subconscious mind. And then listen to that yourself at night, and that can start to create a lovely visualization in your mind, that your brain, it's your own voice, can really go to and start to change habits and patterns as well. So it's definitely giving yourself lots of lots of other tools. And I think that is definitely a huge thing that's lacking, is people are taught to restrict but with nothing, no alternative in its place, and then what are you meant to do? You're you're setting yourself up to fail absolutely so just we reminders like that. You know, I could have a herbal tea right now, and actually, I think that would make me feel okay, but sometimes it might not. And that is that's okay too, but as long as you do have lots of tools and then you can decide what's appropriate right now. And I'm sure so many people that listen to you speak have probably missed many beautiful night out with their friends and family and celebrations for fear of food and trying to restrict and then ultimately binge afterwards, because I know I used to have all of that as well. You know, I if I was really trying to be strict on something, I can't go to that I've only just started to be good and everything like that. And then ultimately, it doesn't matter anyway, because you're going to end up, you know, binging because you feel you've not had any of that enjoyment and dopamine and everything like that as well. So it's also acknowledging you don't cut that out of your life, because that's part of the beauty of life, and part of what gives us joy and brings our stress levels down, and just the whole big circle.
Stephanie Mara 40:55
Yeah, thanks for also bringing in that so often, and I've been exploring this more around how I kind of feel like continuing to focus on diet culture is starting to become a scapegoat, where, if we continue to focus on that diet culture is the problem or the restriction is the problem, they are don't want to diminish that, but also, what are we replacing it with? Like, we can continue to criticize what has been created and what we are taught around that, you know, okay, like you need to restrict your intake or get control of your food and all of these things. But like you were even talking about earlier that we were focused on so much of what we don't want, we don't want diet culture anymore, but what are we going to replace it with, and what are we going to replace restriction with? And so sometimes I have been feeling more and more we actually need to shift the dialogue, and the conversation, maybe even less around continuing to point out that diet culture is the problem and that it's like, yeah, well, okay, what are we going to do if we're not teaching people to diet and restrict anymore? Like there's a huge gap there of well, how do I have a relationship with food? Because this is all I've ever known.
Caroline Mcnally 42:12
That can be confusing. And to be honest, I will completely acknowledge, you know, that some people absolutely need that. And you know, the diets, they do teach you about healthy food, and I'll absolutely say that for macros, I've been on them all, slimming world and weight watchers and everything. Ultimately, they're trying to guide you towards healthy food. So, you know, absolutely no complaints about that. And some people need that. Everybody's different. And it does work for some people. I think the only gap, maybe, that they have is just not giving the tools for when it's not working so well, and just focusing on, you know, I suppose to give strategies tools of, you know, save up your points for this and and do that. But when life ultimately gets in the way, it's just having those, those other tools to think, no, I'm not either on something or off something. I just follow this way of eating because it's part of my lifestyle that I have chosen as sustainable, and that can be different. Some people can't be following something because they find it restrictive, but some people absolutely can. You know, I find no fault in sometimes there's fitness trackers and everything. They can be really useful for making sure you get enough fiber and your micronutrients and definitely protein, that they can absolutely be handy to know these things, especially when you're learning about the nutrients and food and stuff like that, not necessarily calorie focused, but just to learn about what is good, because I think it's important to have that knowledge as well. So as much as I say, you know, diet culture, I suppose I should really be saying the restriction surrounding what people think they need to be doing when they're on a diet or off a diet. But each plan has its own merit. They all ultimately work if you if you manage to stay on them for the rest of your life. The question I think people need to ask yourself is, is this something I can see myself staying on for the rest of my life? Is it something I enjoy for my life, and if it is amazing, you know, just find your way, ultimately, with movement, with what you eat and everything, just find what you enjoy and works with your lifestyle.
Stephanie Mara 44:27
Yeah, what I really hear you describing there is it has to come back to how it feels in your body and that, yeah, I mean, you know, I had someone on my podcast like, I think it was over a year ago, at this point, that was just talking about how, like, we don't actually have a replacement word for diet. Like the word diet is technically just how we eat. Like, how you are eating is a dietary protocol and and so like, diet culture has kind of like co-opted that word a little bit. Yeah, if you're eating in a particular way, that is a you diet, you get to create your own diet, and it has to be does it work for you? Is it sustainable, like all the things you were just listing. Does it make you feel good? Do you feel grounded? Do you feel like you're getting all the energy? Can you sleep well on this kind of way of eating? And that's what it comes back to, and that's why it's like, yeah, like, if macro counting works for you, and it makes you feel empowered, and you're loving your food, and you feel like you're fitting in all the things that your body needs, and it like feels actually relaxing and good in your body. Okay, great. Yeah, I love that you're bringing that back around, because it is important that there are so many suggestions out there that it can be really, really confusing when we're starting to talk about, what do we replace it with? Is that it is kind of bolstering your connection with your body, just to bring this all back around circle of like, well, only your body's gonna let you know what works for you.
Caroline Mcnally 46:01
What works absolutely because I know some people that you know, some of my close friends, and they're, you know, trying the carnivore style diet and everything, and they're finding it, they're just loving it. And, you know, they're enjoying their food so much, and that is absolutely the way forward and and I'm so happy for them. They've found that way, you know, and then other close friends that are trying fasting, and, you know, I've read benefits to that is especially for hormonal issues and everything. For me, personally, I know I couldn't do that, because I would just be thinking of food, food, food all day. And I do get very hungry, but it's working for her, and she felt amazing. So I would never judge somebody for choosing anything. The main thing is, you're feeling healthy, you're feeling good, you're enjoying it, ultimately, and it's not stopping you from enjoying the moments in life that you should be enjoying and not making you feel guilty in any way, definitely.
Stephanie Mara 47:05
Yeah, well, you offered so many pearls today. I'm curious if there's any other baby steps that you would offer listeners as they're maybe trying to I feel like we've been just talking about a different way to come into relationship with food urges. I'm wondering if there's any other things you've played with, with clients or hypnosis, things that you've seen be really effective, or, you know, any other you know, baby step you feel like you would offer to the listeners today.
Caroline Mcnally 47:35
I would say the most powerful thing that people can do for themselves is if they can imagine themselves as their 80 year old self, and look back on the the entirety of their life and imagine everything had went beautifully, look back on your whole timeline and see what brought you the most joy and what lifestyle you found brought your health and energy to be with your loved ones. And if you look back on that, if you're ever confused about what to do or which direction and that that would go for you know, anything, what you're choosing to eat, or your lifestyle, or problems with binge eating that you're trying to recover from, or any of the above that you're struggling anyone's struggling with, if you, if you take yourself, you know, I always say to lie in your bed is the best time to really get in touch with your mind and your subconscious self. Imagine a color or a mist or anything that you can visualize, everyone's different. So sometimes people feel they can't visualize something. So just imagine relaxation then going from your head and slowly imagine it flowing down all the way through your body to the tips of your toes, and in your own internal voice, repeat, calm. Calm your mind. Calm your mind. And then really try and visualize yourself as your 18 year old self, looking back on your whole timeline, the moments that brought you joy and peace and love, and you know, the celebrations you've had around food. And then you will be able to quite easily, choose what movement fits in with your lifestyle to bring you the most vibrancy. What foods would bring you that health and vitality? And what do you want to make happen, to bring you joy in your life and and stop you from having too much stress and everything like that, and then always just keep that picture in your mind. I would say it's a very positive thing to do, definitely.
Stephanie Mara 49:42
Hmm that is a beautiful imagery. Thank you so much for offering that. And yeah, definitely gonna try that on for myself as well. So I'm curious, how can listeners keep in touch with you and the work that you're doing?
Caroline Mcnally 49:57
So I'm on Instagram. I'm a very small account, right now, and right now it's cazmcnazweightlosshypnosis on Instagram and cazmcnazweightlosshypnotherapy on Facebook, and I'm just slowly trying to build up an audience. So I really appreciate you letting me be on this podcast. Thank you very much.
Stephanie Mara 50:17
Yeah, absolutely. I love what you're posting, and so excited for the work that you're doing and the different lens that you are bringing into this field. And so thank you for sharing all of your wisdom today, and you know, looking forward to just seeing where your work takes you.
Caroline Mcnally 50:35
Thank you very much. It's exciting. It's very exciting. And I did some future pacing and goal setting myself for that very reason in my own mind, about what I intend, where I want this to go, and everything and it can, you know, self hypnosis can be helpful for that as well. So it's exciting.
Stephanie Mara 50:53
Yeah, absolutely. I will leave all of those links in the show notes and just thank you so much again for being here and sharing everything that you did today.
Caroline Mcnally 51:02
Thank you very much. Thank you.
Stephanie Mara 51:04
Yeah, well, to everyone listening as always, I'm here for you every step of the way on this food and body adventure. So reach out anytime at support@stephaniemara.com with any questions, and I hope you all have a satiating and safety producing rest of the day. Bye!
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